Trials & Errors #63 (8/10/25): A Digital Radio Plug 'n Play Experience

Agreed! But, I don't like to see CW referred to as some sort of useless mode because of today's technology. That aside, love that bug in the pix! Here, not a real bug collector, just a horizontal VIZ bug, a Vibro De Lux, and Vibro Standard. Love them all.
Best 73,
WA6JJM

 

(Shrug)
This all holds zero interest for me.
If using VoIP to work 'DX' is your happy spot, have at it. Radio is what you make of it

I do occasionally read the mail on or local (connected) repeater. Few fun/interesting conversations, but there it is for folks that want to play.

 

Fine business, Dave. I'm a Mac user too...it's all I use for my work at the university. But, oh, I darned sure have a Windows (11 Pro) PC in the shack. It only makes sense. I do use my MacBook Air for POTA. Early days for me too. One of these days I may get set up with a hotspot, but for now, the attraction seems to just be ragchewing with the local gang on the linked repeater system here (five machines at last count). The only drawback to relying on repeaters is that while there is more activity than on the analog machines, there still isn't a lot all the time. On the other hand DMR's popularity seems to be growing here. I do know it's a lot easier to convince an OT like me to shell out the $200 my Radioddity cost (I believe your Anytone is a little less) or a $100 Baofeng--which works just fine as a no-frills DMR ht--than for an expensive D-Star or Fusion radio to get into that DIGITAL STUFF.

Anyhow, have fun--that's what it's all about.

 

I'm not a bug collector, either, OM. I'm not supposed to be, anyhow; they just keep following me home!

The McElroy Speed Key Bug is fun and has a lovely feel, but the most used one in the stable is the Standard-Deluxe (barely photobombing the McElroy in the picture).

 

Hi Don, I wrote an article some time back about our local 2 meters, and about how uninteresting the conversations are there. A tune-in at 3 AM caught a belching contest, as one example. But DMR is far past that, and the conversations there (while still shorter than the old days of ham radio) are great. Professional, courteous hams talking to hams in other parts of the world, genuinely interesting (To me at least). Dave, W7DGJ

 

IMPO Digital Radio is Radio, until the last part of the phrase is left off, then it's just VOip using commercial infrastructure.

This really started with Echolink, and the FCC's rule change that allowed us to use Commercial infrastructure, like the Internet, for linking of Analog Repeaters.

Echolink took this the extra step.
Lets say you were able to reverse autopatch into a repeater and have a chat with a mobile somewhere; well, that IS Echolink.
Is that truely "Radio"? Well, certainly not on the Cell phone/ Computer side, but on the repeater and other operator side, yes.
The only reason you needed to log in to Echolink with your call is that pesky "Can't talk to Non-Hams" clause in Part 97 to prevent Non-Hams from accessing repeaters.

What about linking two Analog Repeaters via VOip? Totally allowed, and beats the heck out of the old landline system. Infact there are statewide VOip linked Analog systems that have been in use for well over 10 years. Much more dependable than the old AT&T phone lines, and cheaper.

DMR (or whatever you have) is the same idea as linking 2 Analog Repeaters. You get on your handheld, and chat with someone in Russia who is on their handheld; both via linked repeaters. By the same rules that govern linked Analog repeaters, that's kosher.

Where I get an uncomfortable feeling is someone sitting on their phone/computer, or using a VOip "Hamphone", and talking with someone via an internet linked repeater, or even another VOip user, and calling it ""Amateur Radio"". To me (and I can only speak for myself), that isn't in the spirit of the vocation/hobby I have had for over 45 years.

DMR/whatever, isn't my cup of meat - right now. Currently it's just an annoying noise that causes me to shut off the 2m rig and do something else. Maybe in the future...

 

I took weeks to get the DMR HT working. Or months depending on how you measure my effort through the discouraging process.

Bridgecom used to advertise that they had 30 hours of video in 193 lessons. This sounds like hell on earth. Give me written instructions any day.

DMR gives me the capability to talk to people who are at home talking to their internet connection. To be fair, VHF analog repeaters give me the same capability. I have a new appreciation for HF radio.

Real DMR progress came from Powerpoint PDF presentations about DMR concepts. Some that I found didn't help at all, but 2 or 3 of them were clear. Some had more detail on one area and others had more detail on other areas.

One of the best resources was a ham who just said "The Anytone software isn't difficult, it's just tedious." It requires the same info in multiple windows hidden in the plethora of menu options from both the left column options and the top menu tabs. IMO, a computer program can populate these different fields if I enter the data just once. But what do I know? I'm retired from computer work.

There is an open-source alternative that claims to support my HT. Brick wall. It says it doesn't recognize the model ID although the model is listed on the Github page.

I bought the HT to help with events such as 5k runs, marathons, car rallies, etc. Some of the ham organizers make these into extra long days. For an hour-long run, hams need to show up 2 hours before the first runner starts and stay after for a debrief? This isn't just about doing a good job calling out bib numbers. TBF, this is analog but another reason my HT is idle.

I took a long time to get the DMR HT working but my motivation to use it is nearly dead. HF for me, at least for now.

 

Thanks Ron, great well-considered commentary, Dave W7DGJ

 

Hi Dave, good post thanks. You're journey was even more difficult than mine. I'm having a blast with it right now, however. Have you tried the Brandmeister network, and perhaps the Worldwide TG-91 group? It's fun to listen to, and to participate in . .. . there's always someone from some remote location taking calls and most signals come in without loss or distortion. Dave, W7DGJ

 

I don't have issues with digital voice modes per se, but some problems have surfaced as mentioned in a previous post. I have personally heard people describing their Echolink QSO half a world away as if they made a QSO that is the equivalent RF from one end to the other over that path, simply not true. That is unfortunate that those doing that didn't full understand what the difference is. The other big issue for me is the degree of "proprietary nature" of the 3 leading systems as of now. To me that is very problematic.

The key problems with V/UHF digital voice modes as they stand today I had previously outlined in this earlier post:
https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?th...novation-wish-list.947547/page-3#post-7079863

From my admittedly limited research of the topic, I do like what I see that M17 Project is trying to achieve. It is meant to be for amateur radio use, it is not just adapting some existing commercial systems and protocols to amateur radio use. My quick perusal of the current, and actively evolving specifications seem sensible to me, and you can see that extensibility is being built in from the outset, and perhaps most importantly, it is entirely open to implement as anyone sees fit. As such it lends itself to fully SDR approaches, no intellectual property restricted commercial hardware codec's required. Those items are all very big deals, and fully capture the spirit of amateur radio, the existing digital voice formats are not as "open", and are much more restricted. Something that amateur radio technology and innovation had not been historically.

 

Thanks Duane. Great post. I agree that the commercial providers of digital voice at this point have only made the market more muddied. DMR sounds and operates fine for me -- I don't think I need to be involved with YSF or D-Star. Each may have some point or another in their favor, but wouldn't it just have been better if they'd collaborated in the beginning on one mode. Just think where we'd be now! Next issue, more about M17 from the initial developer as a Guest, Dave W7DGJ

 

Dave, I got into DMR and DStar during the pandemic lockdowns. I agree with you that TG 91 (and REF 001C) feel much like the old days, when we could have frequent real conversations with “common” DX countries. But without QRM, QRN and QSB. When HF conditions are bad, I find digital voice very enjoyable. And if I was stuck in an antenna-hostile HOA or senior residence, I would use it frequently. I do prefer HF if it’s cooperating.

Yes, DMR, D-Star and Fusion are real radio—between the radio and the hotspot. Beyond that, they are Internet simulations of radio. The skills needed to set up and navigate them are computer skills, not RF skills. And working India on DMR is a far cry from working India via the ionosphere. I think that’s why some hams object to it.

DMR is unnecessarily complex because it is an adaptation of a commercial mode. It was designed to be programmed by a professional, according to a hierarchical corporate organizational chart. It doesn’t know about callsigns. The OpenGD77 firmware mitigates some of DMR’s complexity—especially codeplug creation—and adds some wonderful ham-related features. I love it.

Another problem with digital voice in general is that there are thousands of talk groups/reflectors/rooms. But most or them are hardly ever used. Most of what I hear on talk groups other than the national and international ones are occasional nets and drills, and a lot of people trying to figure out how to make their radios and hotspots work properly. So, as the salesman said in “The Music Man,” “Ya gotta know the territory.”

 

Thank you Peter, solid post and I agree with you on everything you said. Yes, I'd rather work through the ionosphere, but switching into an "easy" communications mode like DMR is enjoyable from time to time. Courteous people, delightful signal strength and audio, and simple PTT on a tiny device I can carry all over my house and yard! Dave, W7DGJ

 

Nice article!

I'll add my 'digital radio' story and views to the mix.

One important addition however- nobody so far has really mentioned that one can dabble with digital radio without any hardware costs (beyond the computer and internet connection that they probably already have). Echolink has been mentioned, but not Peanut*. There's also CQ-100/200, etc. All these provide a digital radio experience, basically for free (CQ has something like free Sunday's).

As background, I'm big into HF and HF DX. I've enjoyed Peanut (more later), dabbled a bit with Echolink.

The big question- is it radio?
I hate this answer, but it's truly Yes and No.

Yes: It's only 'radio people', talking to 'radio people', and conversations/activities are 100% the type of things 'radio people' talk about and do. The operating style is identical (PTT, only one TX at a time [unlike a phone call], the jargon, etc.). And at least on Peanut, anyone (who knows how) can listen in- just like on the radio. Round-tables, nets, etc.- it's all the same.

No: Unless one wants to pedantically include a WiFi or cellular radio link in the mix, there is no encoded electromagnetic radiation leaving a piece of metal, propagating through the air (bouncing off the ionosphere), captured by another piece of metal to be decoded. [In that sense, FT8 (for example) is most definitely radio.] The notion of VOIP DXing is absurd. Others have mentioned having a VOIP part in the communications with repeaters that are going over the air (BTW- I always think that's a cool aspect, especially in a far-away land)-- the VOIP part is NOT radio. In a case of an Ethernet-connected computer making a digital contact to another Ethernet-connected computer -- that's not radio, obviously. Does any of this matter? That's up to you- and see "Yes" above.

A little discussion:
I only see "Pro's" to the digital radio (DR*) thing. As eluded to above, most (99+%) of my experience is with Peanut** (I've presented a couple of club talks on the program). It's difficult for many of us to have an over-the-air station setup to where we can leisurely chat with someone on the other side of the world any time we want (solar minimum for an extreme example); and even if we could, there are often many stations wanting to make the contact- hardly a leisurely environment. DR allows that (leisurely, far-away conversation) in spades! I've chatted with the older hams in the Tokyo area that love to speak in English. No way they're setting up a monster antenna array in the middle of the largest city in the world. I used to have great chats with a Frenchman living in the Philippines (could hear the 'Asian' sounds in the background!). All of this is free (Peanut, Echolink, etc.) for the taking. No towers, no amps, no pileups, no fading/propagation, no SWR, no $$$$; everything we imagined when first exposed to the amateur radio hobby (only to find out later how involved and expensive all this HF insanity is! My wife thinks we're all nuts when such an easy option- DR- is available.). As prospective hams, 'Talk to the world!' is what we're promised. The reality is far easier said than done. DR brings it!

As a side note, some comment that DR is no challenge at all. True, but neither is communicating through a repeater with a H/T. Of course there's some setup with the repeaters (offset, tone, etc.), but there's also setup with DR.

Another quirky aspect- I enjoy sending SSTV images on Peanut. It's neat to receive the image nearly perfect- something someone wants you to see from a foreign land. Silly? Sure. But I've also become much more proficient with the MMSSTV software in that more relaxed environment- skills that I take with me when doing a SSTV image over HF (exact same software). And no worries about pounding the PA's in the radio sending SSTV VOIP, there's no wear/tear at all!
I also really like the 'dashboards', it makes it easy to scare up some activity seeing who is logged in, active, where to find them, etc. Similar to and better than DX clusters.

Bottom line- I think DR is a wonderful addition to the hobby. I love over-the-air radio for a DX challenge, but for a leisurely rag-chew (especially to someone in a foreign land), I'll take VOIP/Peanut. The copy is 100% and relaxed. A real, quality, conversation is very possible (5-9, in/out, doesn't make much sense!). Peanut is available on Android, therefore I can take my radio-like hobby anywhere (with an internet connection) with me. I'll also take DR over no radio at all (like if very antenna-restricted). Does a pleasant chat over the internet to a ham in Japan equate to a DX 6m JA contact? Of course not. They're different things entirely, both gratifying in their own ways.
Rob
VA3RTG


* Not to be confused with digital voice over radio, such as FreeDV ( https://freedv.org/ ).
** http://www.pa7lim.nl/peanut/ https://peanut.pa7lim.nl/

 

Thanks Rob. Great comments and I learned more about Peanut! I agree with most everything you said about how to categorize our various pursuits on DR. Also, nice to see an App (Peanut) that can be used on the Mac, as I am a fan of my Mac laptop. I'll be installing that today or tomorrow and we'll have to see where I can go with it. In the meanwhile, still having fun with the original DMR and enjoying quality conversations with hams all over the world. Not for points or contests, but for the shear pleasure of meeting and talking to people in far flung locations. Anyone who wants to listen to Brandmeister and get a feel for what it is like can use the Brandmeister "hoseline" that I referred to in my article. Thanks again Rob, and I'll catch you on the "air" sometime soon, Dave W7DGJ