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Transmitted From Commercial Aircraft?

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by WX1FLY, Jun 5, 2018.

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  1. WA1GXC

    WA1GXC Ham Member QRZ Page

    National Transportation Safety Board
    Aircraft Accident Report NTSB/AAR-09/03 In-flight Left Engine Fire
    American Airlines Flight 1400 September 28, 2007 St. Louis, Missouri

    "Board Member Statement - Member Sumwalt, Concurring"
    "Unfortunately I once again find myself compelled to comment on the casual attitude of a flight crew. The fact is, time and time again, Safety Board
    investigations have revealed casual crew attitudes. Of significance is that in several cases, I believe the casual attitude either directly caused the accident
    or exacerbated factors leading to the accident.
    "As an airline pilot for nearly two-and-a-half decades, I recognize.......
    "I ask rhetorically: What is the best way to prepare yourself to deal with events that are unfamiliar to you....Based on my flying experience and aviation safety
    background, I firmly believe the answer is rigorous adherence to standard operating procedures (SOP) and cockpit discipline on each and every flight. When
    you do this, you are preparing yourself for the unexpected.
    "In reviewing the cockpit voice recorder transcript, there were several things that pointed to a casual crew attitude...
    "Taken in isolation, these individual deviations may seem insignificant. When viewed in totality, however, these remarks and deviations from SOPs before,
    during and after the emergency paint a picture of a flight crew who may not have been mentally prepared to properly deal with abnormal and emergency
    situations.....Quite simply, they weren't mentally in the ball game.....
    "In the case of improving pilot professionalism, the laws (regulations and company policies) are present. What is lacking are sufficient peer pressures,
    consequences and in some cases, individual accountability and responsibility.
    "I urge management and pilot associations to tow a heavy line on insisting on compliance. And I urge that individual pilots insist on this, as well. By addressing
    these issues through management and pilot association pressures, along with individual accountability and responsibility, needed changes will occur.
    To do anything less is simply unacceptable."
  2. N3HGB

    N3HGB Ham Member QRZ Page

    Or the inspector could join in the QSO and have some fun. You think someone sits in the cockpit for 3,000 miles and does NOTHING but strictly required flying stuff? I would go nuts and so would any other human. Sure there are times when it is strictly business - sterile cockpit rule - but enroute with nothing going on for hours no one cares if you want to jabber on the radio. They are already jabbering on 123.45 or whatever - when I flew night cargo we had a frequency for rumors, news, and general bull. It helped keep us awake at least.
    K0UO likes this.
  3. K0UO

    K0UO Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Send me your email my QRZ is good

    My pressurized glass cockpit Pressurized 337 has newer IO-550s 325HP
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  4. NN3W

    NN3W Ham Member QRZ Page

    This is a torturted and WRONG read of 47 CFR 97.11(b). You must read sections (a) and (b) together which note that independent radio station for amateur use can be installed with permission of the captain or pilot. Sectuion (b) refers to the operation of that installed radio station. The regulations absolutely DO NOT prohibit the use of ship or aircraft equipment systems for amateur communications.

    There is a very high standard of care but that does NOT entail the utilization of a radio for non-aviation purposes.

  5. KC3SWL

    KC3SWL XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I'm thinking that mile long post about it not being legal is probably 90% debatable.If it was illegal I don't think a pilot would risk his professional career over something like amateur radio. He knows there is CVR in service the entire flight. He also knows the other members of the flight crew could and would say something if it was outside regulations.
    Myself, I think it's great some are in the air and want to make contacts while their on their non stick time.
    That miles long post seems more like an attempt to dissuade operation in the air and or ground stations from enjoying a not so common contact.
  6. N3HGB

    N3HGB Ham Member QRZ Page

    Long story short - if you are not the pilot it is not YOUR problem. If you are the pilot, one would hope enough common sense prevails to play radio during appropriate portions of the flight. If you can't manage that you probably will trip on a fuel hose or lock yourself out of the airplane too :rolleyes:
    Back in the day they used to carry on QSOs with the weather ships, those guys really wanted to talk to someone that wasn't on the ship!
  7. WA1GXC

    WA1GXC Ham Member QRZ Page

    I'll save us both a lot of time. As an aside, capitalizing the typeface in your counter-arguments does not increase their efficacy in the eyes of
    a Federal Administrative Law Judge.

    The statement in my posting at the top of this page, by NTSB Board member Bob Sumwalt, a line pilot for US Airways for 25 years and a union and industry safety expert, is clear and philosophically self-evident.

    The flight operations manual for my former employer, one of the three largest airlines in the world (dependent upon year and metrics applied),
    is proprietary, so I will not be quoting verbatim. I will paraphrase, however, that written procedure requires the "Pilot Flying" to devote his/her primary
    attention to control of the airplane. The "Pilot Monitoring" is responsible for all other tasks including, guess what, monitoring the Pilot Flying,
    all flight instrument indications and mechanical/electrical systems status and operation.

    The Flight Operations Manual has an entire chapter entitled "Threat and Error Management". It outlines norms of professional discipline and how to
    mitigate risks in a naturally-hostile flight environment. "Data collected in over 3,000 Line Operations Safety Audits (LOSAs) showed 50% of errors went undetected by
    the flight crew." ..." A NTSB study showed that 84% of the reviewed accidents involved inadequate crew monitoring and challenging."

    Your position on the applicable FCC reg characterizes my reading as 'tortured'. I believe you are in error.

    I don't know how much time you have in the air, either forward or aft of the forward lavatory; Frankly, it's not germane to the argument. A lot of people much smarter and
    more knowledgeable than both you and I have looked at the issues involved, and their best counsel will not be facilitating your "5-9 Is that a QSL?" from Flight Level 330.

    You may be an accomplished radio operator, but when it comes to how to fly a transport-category airplane safely, I recommend you stay in your lane.

    Keep the dirty-side down.
  8. NN3W

    NN3W Ham Member QRZ Page

    So I guess inasmuch as you have completely walked away from the discussion regarding the installation of radio gear in an aircraft that you are admitting that your characterization of that portion of the CFR is incorrect.

    As to flying, I'll make the following observations
    1) commercial pilots often do things other than 100% focus on the operations of the other pilot. They spend time in the cockpit eating, discussing issues with the the cabin crew, and talking on the radio. Indeed you have times when the flight crew are outside of the cabin 1) going to the bathroom, 2) chatting with the cabin crew, 3) chatting briefly with a passenger. That person is outside of the control or monitoring status of the pilot flying. As another pilot on this thread has pointed out, things other than monitoring the PF can and do happen.
  9. WA1GXC

    WA1GXC Ham Member QRZ Page

    I didn't know we were allowed to use the bathroom. Wish you would have told me 33 years ago.
    Thanks, Champ.
  10. WZ7U

    WZ7U Ham Member QRZ Page

    I thought hams were a condescending lot. Add airplane driver to the mix and wow, exponential growth!
    K0UO and WA1GXC like this.

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