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Time To Change The Contest Rules

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by VE3II, Mar 27, 2004.

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  1. M1BUX

    M1BUX Ham Member QRZ Page

    well said tom, your not going over the top with what your saying about the contest mess on the bands,the rules as they stand are a joke, and as you say the contests are pushing 95% of us non-contest hams off the bands on weekends when all we want to do is play radio but just cant because the remaining 5% of hams want to splatter and hog the bands for up to 48hrs, things need to change and change soon if we are all going to be able to live and play radio together side by side....
    i like you and many others are not "anti-contest", we just want to see fair play to all in the hobby "and it is only a hobby as some poeple seem to forget " best wishes tom and fingers crossed things will change soon...

    steve

    m1bux


    My Webpage
     
  2. K9PG

    K9PG Ham Member QRZ Page

    Oh God.... here we go.... another whiner about those gosh darn contesters.  

    GET A FREAKIN' GRIP PEOPLE!!!   VE3II may sound like he's making sense... but he's really not.  He's making a mountain out of a mole hill.   So is NJ1K and N4ADO.... and all of you other people who claim there's a contest every weekend that renders the bands completely worthless.  That is just pure nonsense and has no truth to it whatsoever!  

    There are 3 weekends throughout the year where 15m and 20m are pretty crowded... The last weekend in October, the 3rd weekend in November, and the first weekend in March.   On every single other weekend, and week day, of the year, there is tons and tons and tons of room all over all bands for all of you rag chewers to exchange such meaningful information like your names, ages, weather, QTHs, radios, amps, antennas, towers, shoe size, height, weight, favorite food, allergies, hobbies, jobs, cars, favorite color, boxers or briefs.... and of course... to complain about those darn contests and contesters.   3 weekends out of 52 (or 49 weekends)... 6 days out 365 (or 349 days) where there is plenty of room for rag chewing and exchanging meaningful information.   NAQP SSB in January and August can get crowded too... so feel free to add 2 days to those #s.

    This past weekend was WPX SSB... and there was all kinds of room on all bands for you rag chewers to carry on with whatever it is that you carry on about.

    And to all you folks that say we contesters fire up on top of your rag chewing... well let me tell you something OMs....  there are just as many, and probably more, of you rag chewing types that fire up right on top or right next to (defined in my book as 1.5hkz or less) a contester who was, and has been, CQing.   I cannot tell you how many times it has happened to me... some old timer fires up right on top of me calling their buddy... and then they pretend like they can't hear me... and all they talk about is their ailments, how Mildred is doing today and that she ran out of Depends, how they ran out of Geritol...etc.  I have dozens of them recorded.  I'd also be willing to bet that most of those contesters that you people are complaining about are at least 2khz away from the ongoing rag-chew, and what you all are complaining about is the fact their signal is very strong... and you also probably have your noise blanker on.    

    Now hear this all you rag chewers... when there's a contest on and you can't find a freq to carry on your rag chew, try the WARC bands... try CW... try RTTY or PSK.  Here's novel idea.... try email or Instant Messenger... start up a chat room on MIRC.  You can even use voice over the internet too... for free!  And here's another great idea... there's this wonderful new invention out there now that really comes in handy... and it's really cheap now days... much cheaper than a ham radio and an antenna.... it's called the TELEPHONE.   Buy yourself one at Wal-Mart for $7 and call your buddy on the phone and rag chew all you want!   With the advent of 3 way calling, each of you can have one other person on the phone with you... so the possibility to have a big round table is there... and it's DUPLEX too!   The amount of electricity you're spending talking on your radio is probably very close to the 5 cents per minute that many long distance companies charge.  

    The bottom line is this rag chewers... and think about this long and hard.   When you know that there is road construction ahead, do you keep going through the road construction and take a chance of getting caught up on traffic, or do you wait til traffic dies down a bit, or do you just take a detour?   Much like contesting, road construction is a fact of life that will never go away.  When you happen upon road construction, try taking a detour (WARC bands) or a different route (CW, RTTY or some other digital mode.)  Or just wait til traffic dies down (wait til the contest is over.)   Writing to the governor to complain that there's too much road construction isn't gonna get anything done, except probably give the governor a good laugh.  
     
  3. K9PG

    K9PG Ham Member QRZ Page

    So Tom... if only 5% of the world ham population participates in a contest, does that mean that the rest of the 95% of the world ham population is looking for a frequency to use to carry on a rag chew? Your 5% / 95% example of the 20m phone band is absolute nonsense.

    There's a good reason that the ARRL and CQ blow you off... because you're not making any logical sense... neither are the rest of you contest bashers.

    There 3 weekends a year, maybe 4, when it's hard to find a freq to carry on a rag chew. Everyone who tells you to "go to the WARC bands" or "try another mode" is 1000000% correct. Give them a try. If you don't want to give them a try, then quit whining and try using the phone, email or some of the real-time chat programs on the internet.

    Paul K9PG
     
  4. af5q

    af5q Guest

    Only thing I will say about the contests is that I agree with others....its not the contests, its the operators. I enjoy both nets and contests and when Im in contest, I will steer clear of nets.  I also use a rule of use only minimum power to make the contact.  If I dont get the contact, fine, if I do I do. We dont need contest limitations , but regulation of the stations that are the problem. I also disagree with 28 contest weekends a year. That may be a world wide thought, but not usa...

    want to free up 20 m? get rid of some of the nets...amateur's code helps tooo.

    73 all
    Ron
    de Ron
     
  5. n0zu

    n0zu Ham Member QRZ Page

    <span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>I agree
    I have heard people having a qso and
    all of a sudden here comes a contester and
    takes the frequency away.

    And look the contester just broke one of the rules
    for ham radio

    I here it many times they just jump in and take it,
    and if you say something they just do not say anything
    and keep going.

    I can agree there should be a place on the ham bands that is for out of bounce

    and that the contesters can not use for the contesting

    and it seems like in the most of the time

    this weekend has a contest
    the next weekend has a contest
    and the next one has a contest
    and just keeps on going

    I think that they should limit contests to one a month.
    that might help.
    </span>
     
  6. KI4CYB

    KI4CYB XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Im sorry to say but I have also heard net groups and rag chewer operators splatter...
     
  7. ZL1TM

    ZL1TM Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n0zu @ Mar. 30 2004,23:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can agree there should be a place on the ham bands that is for out of bounce and that the contesters can not use for the contesting
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Well, I give up. Does WARC mean anything, anything at all?
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
    I think that they should limit contests to one a month.
    that might help.
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Will that help? Do you REALLY think so? Let's ban all the contests but CQ WPX and CQ WW. By doing that we limit contests to one every six months. And guess what, as soon as the contest is over there will be another post on qrz.com saying how bad the contesters are and something has to be done about that.

    P.S. to AC4BB.  Go to your post, Posted on Mar. 31 2004,00:36, select it, do copy, paste into any text editor, do edit/replace, what: "contest", replace with: "rag chew", do replace all, re-read your post... Interesting, isn't it? The only statement I disagree with would be "Well, the   rag chewers  only operate a  few  weekends a year  "

    Regards, 73 and CU on the bands!
    Andrei, de ZL1TM
     
  8. W0LC

    W0LC Ham Member QRZ Page

    I think that limiting contests, whether the number, when, band width, etc., will be a hard sell. Just look at the DXCC program. Relaxing the DXCC criteria has created new countries, some of which are very questionable (i.e. Scarbourough Reef; just a rock) which creates an influx of cash when someone decides to operate it. The DXCC desk gets the funds from those making submittals and afterall, the ARRL is a business too and need to build up their coffers.

    If more contest operators would exercise common courteousy, most of this would be moot. Then again, looking at the progression (or I should say digression) displayed on some of the bands, I don't see enforcement or adherence to common sense taking hold anytime soon. The "rag chewers" are in the noise on this issue and this issue has been bantered around for decades.

    I agree that there are way too many contests. I wish some would be limited in scope and more weekends would be free of them, but then again, I have no clout.
     
  9. N8CPA

    N8CPA Ham Member QRZ Page

    I find it curious that this whole thread seems to have been about phone contesting only. I don't recall reading a single post referring to similar problems with CW contesting. My conclusion is that phone operation is bad for amateur radio.

    It is evil! It invites contention, occupies too much bandwidth, and causes rifts among prefered operating specialties, net, ragchew, and competitive. The solution would be, therefore, to make voice operation illegal.

    Before you aim your flamethrowers--I'M JUST KIDDING!

    But I think it is curious. Even the CW sub-bands get crowded during contests. And amid all those overlapping signals, one can still find a few ragchews, or someone callng CQ for a ragchew. Ditto with nets. Somehow we manage to get along. But then, most of the brasspounders I know actually enjoy operating in such frays, even the ragchewers. And we seem to be in much better moods when we do it.

    Steve
     
  10. W0LC

    W0LC Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N8CPA @ Mar. 31 2004,06:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I find it curious that this whole thread seems to have been about phone contesting only.  I don't recall reading a single post referring to similar problems with CW contesting.  My conclusion is that phone operation is bad for amateur radio.

    It is evil! It invites contention, occupies too much bandwidth, and causes rifts among prefered operating specialties, net, ragchew, and competitive.  The solution would be, therefore, to make voice operation illegal.

    Before you aim your flamethrowers--I'M JUST KIDDING!

    But I think it is curious.  Even the CW sub-bands get crowded during contests.  And amid all those overlapping signals, one can still find a few ragchews, or someone callng CQ for a ragchew.  Ditto with nets.  Somehow we manage to get along.  But then, most of the brasspounders I know actually enjoy operating in such frays, even the ragchewers.  And we seem to be in much better moods when we do it.

    Steve[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Hi Steve,

    Well, that is an accurate assessment. However, on CW, it does get crowded, but not to the extent the SSB gets crowded. I think that is mainly due to the signal widths and the power levels. also, on CW, one can filter and select signals much better.

    Being CW is the second most popular mode, I tend to think that for obvious reasons, SSB would be more crowded, even though the QSO rate is higher (usually) on CW.

    I don't think we will see a proposal on this issue any time soon.
     
  11. KT0DD

    KT0DD Ham Member QRZ Page

    I am in agreement for separating contest spectrum from ragchew spectrum, not necessarily because I am anti-contest, as much as I am anti contest attitudes. I check into 4-5 nets each weekend, including the Ten Tec users net, sometimes the Collins net, Maritime mobile service net, several other regional nets etc., and WITHOUT FAIL, every 1-2 minutes, someone during the contest STOMPS all over the net with CQ CONTEST CQ CONTEST, without even checking to see if the frequency is IN USE!

     And the guys working split...SHEESH! DO YOU EVER CHECK TO SEE IF YOUR TRANSMIT FREQUENCY IS IN USE???  SORRY, but it's time for the FCC to step in with new limits, since obviously, contesters are NOT self policing, or even considerate. 73.
     
  12. W0EAJ

    W0EAJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Ahhh, contests.

    While in the USN, I operated from KG6AAY on Guam Island, and often when running phone patches for folks back to home in the mystic land of CONUS, we'd run into contests... they'd want to work us for a point and I just wanted a young Marine to be able to tell his Mom he was gonna' be okay.

    Now, whenever the contests come on (yes, I've worked a few too), the bands (except for the WARCs, which may or may not be open) are, for all intensive purposes, worthless for regular QSOs, nets, or just plain fun.

    Yes, a simple rule addition on spectral limits would be the apolitical solution, and enforcement isn't necessary... see, if you called outside of the contest area - theoretically, nobody could work you for the contest, anyway!

    Yes folks - contests work in either direction - have a bit of respect for those who DO, and those who DON'T.

    T C Dailey - WAØEAJ - Denver
     
  13. KX2J

    KX2J Ham Member QRZ Page

    As far as limiting the contests to certain parts of the band, there is no room. If you heard the wpx contest, there was no room to get aclean freq. Try the WARC bands, that is why no contesting is there. A lot of DX stations are all over the bands and you have to play them as they are there. Other countries have diff. rules. tnx an avid dxer
     
  14. WA3KYY

    WA3KYY Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kx2j @ Mar. 31 2004,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As far as limiting the contests to certain parts of the band, there is no room. If you heard the wpx contest, there was no room to get aclean freq. Try the WARC bands, that is why no contesting is there. A lot of DX stations are all over the bands and you have to play them as they are there. Other countries have diff. rules. tnx an avid dxer[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I'm not sure where you were listening but there were clear frequencies all over.  Even on 20M I only heard one contester above 14.340 and he was not getting many responses.  Spacing on 10M was in excess of 20 KHz and there was no contesting above 28.600 MHz that I heard.  If you claim that 10M wasn't open, I'd disagree.  I had an easy time working 3B9C on 28.022 Sunday afternoon and there was good gray line propagation to the South Pacific both days but very few folks were operating.

    Just were where the 95% of non-contest hams, all trying to crowd onto 20M phone?  Must have been as there were a lot of lids on 20M who got into territorial squabbles over who was on a given frequency first, were over driving their audio or just plain did not listen first, contester and non-contester alike.  I just avoided 20M entirely unless a country I needed popped up on the cluster.  It made for a more pleasant experience.


    Hmm, maybe make the 20M US General phone segment a contest free zone, that would probably eliminate the majority of complaints [​IMG]
    73,
    Mike
     
  15. KT0DD

    KT0DD Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kx2j @ Mar. 31 2004,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As far as limiting the contests to certain parts of the band, there is no room. If you heard the wpx contest, there was no room to get aclean freq. Try the WARC bands, that is why no contesting is there. A lot of DX stations are all over the bands and you have to play them as they are there. Other countries have diff. rules. tnx an avid dxer[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    With sunspots going down still, propagation on the higher bands can be spotty at times. Going to the WARC bands isn't always a valid option, especially when the MUF is barely useable at 14MHZ. 73.
     
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