Time signal intruder

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by KA2FIR, May 27, 2018.

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  1. VE3GTC

    VE3GTC Ham Member QRZ Page

    Has been jumping around on and around 12369 kHz now for some time ( 2018-07-10 23:00 UTC )

    SINPO 42245

    Certainly has been active jumping around.

    I don't know if the signal has in addition to jumping around on frequency has been jumping around other other bands at the same time.

    cheers, Graham ve3gtc
  2. VE3GTC

    VE3GTC Ham Member QRZ Page

    KK5JY likes this.
  3. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

  4. KA9JLM

    KA9JLM Ham Member QRZ Page

    I keep seeing a burst at 3.579545 MHz
    KK5JY likes this.
  5. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Time to buy your neighbor a new TV? :D
    SA6CKE and KA9JLM like this.
  6. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    IF these HF "tick" signals are coming from experimenters, such as those licensed for HFT development under FCC Part 5, its noteworthy that the ARRL is already fighting a similar battle with satellite links. as seen in their news today,


    "ARRL wants the FCC to facilitate bona fide Amateur Satellite experimentation by educational institutions under Part 97 Amateur Service rules, while precluding the exploitation of amateur spectrum by commercial, small-satellite users authorized under Part 5 Experimental rules."

    The link embedded in that news story that should lead to the ARRL filing in the FCC db, allegedly IB Docket No. 18-86, did not work for me. I was interested to see who filed it. That is who should be contacted about the HF situation as well.

    The League ought to combine the satellites and these potential HF QRM'ers into an overall protest and organizing effort over how Part 5 licensing is being executed. The FCC OET seems either unaware of the effects Part 5 frequency allocations combined with Special Conditions like ID waivers can have in amateur bands or has simply made it an intentionally camouflaged policy giving advantage to the non-Hams.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  7. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    After a Google search, here are links that worked for me to get the comments on the satellite Part 5 vs Part 97 licensing allocation dilemma and conflict,


    https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/10709274556851/ARRL Comments in Smallsat NPRM Docket 18-86 FINAL FCC FILING.pdf

    What a regulatory mess. I feel the same coming to HF spectrum soon too, as perhaps represented by these mysterious "ticks". Spectrum management indeed seems to be regressing into the less civil Wild West / Gold Rush of a century ago again. Yee haw.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  8. WZ7U

    WZ7U Subscriber QRZ Page

    Was it color, man? Oh wow..:D
  9. K5URU

    K5URU Ham Member QRZ Page

    I had a chance to play with the KiwiSDR TDoA extension for a few hours last night, and the infamous pips cooperated to some extent by staying on or at least quickly returning to a chosen frequency for long periods of time. For the most part, this allowed me to run multiple trials fairly quickly (and adjust settings) without having to relocate the signal. This was all between 6.3 and 6.9 MHz. Let's be clear: I'm no expert. I was just trying out the new KiwiSDR TDoA feature, and thought I might as well share my experience with it. Also, the only things I could really control were the list of receivers, the frequency/passband, and the basic map display. All the calculations were done by the server; certainly not by me! Also, I'm not the authority on KiwiSDR by any means, just a noob user. With that out of the way, let me share my experience with you.

    Only KiwiSDR receivers that have GPS features enabled are available for selection within the TDoA extension. Within that subset, only receivers that have recently received time updates from active GPS satellites will contribute to the trial. In this particular case, there are unfortunately not many options directly to the north or south of the Great Lakes area, so I tried to include as much N-S diversity as I could from the other selections. Most of the trials included 3 receivers roughly along the Rockies from west Texas up into Alberta, the KH6ILT receiver in northern Ohio, and two receivers from various locations along the east coast between Florida and Massachusetts. Due to the layout of available receivers, the results generally had an oval shape with the long axis running N-S.

    The first few TDoA trials indicated that the source was somewhere along the west shoreline of Lake Michigan, up to the south shore of Lake Superior. I got similar results using several different sets of receivers from the East and West. However, all of those initial tests included the KH6ILT receiver in Lima, OH, which I thought may have been influencing the results because of its proximity (NVIS? groundwave?). After removing the KH6ILT receiver from the group, all of the trials indicated a source further south, with the oval centered close to Chicago. I was actually a bit disappointed when the pips stopped at 06:00 UTC because I was having so much fun!

    Please allow me to remind you: This was just an experiment by an inexperienced RDF hobbyist using new beta software for the first time. Looks cool though! :cool:

    The results from the KiwiSDR website(s) are presented as a simple heat map on a Lat/Lon grid (not necessarily "square") with ocean/lake/river boundaries. After performing a TDoA, you can look at individual maps for any pair of stations in your list, as well as the overall combined result. To help visualize these combined results, I cobbled together an overlay the best I could manage, using a simple screenshot of a Google map. I literally just stretched the heat map in Paint.NET to roughly match its Lat/Lon lines to the Google map's lines, so don't expect anything fancy here. I'm sure the Kiwi devs will improve the readability of the result maps when they can.

    I ran about a dozen tests, but I only included a few of the results here since they were so similar. After the pips quit, I also ran a TDoA trial on WWV (5 MHz) just to check the accuracy, and I am very impressed. The transparent "X" in the last map (the one doesn't show Lake Michigan) is the actual location of WWV in Colorado. The heat map is right on target!

    Well, I hope this stirs up the hunt a bit. The KiwiSDR tools show a LOT of promise, and overall were fairly easy to use (other than some minor known bugs that required occasional reloading). I have no doubt they will be extremely useful and fun for a wide variety of projects. I can't wait to see further results for these pips, especially on different bands, and when more KiwiSDR stations become available in the Midwest and elsewhere throughout the continent. Thanks to all who are contributing to this effort!

    Blake K5URU

    (Click on each image for the full-size version)

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    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    KK4CUL, N1OOQ, WZ7U and 4 others like this.
  10. N0TZU

    N0TZU Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    The location area for the pips you found is consistent with those posted on rfunderground, and supports the hypothesis that the signals are associated with the high frequency trading experimental HF operation.
    KA2FIR, W0PV and K5URU like this.

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