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The New York Times How to Survive the Apocalypse

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by N4GKS, Sep 23, 2017.

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  1. N2EY

    N2EY Ham Member QRZ Page

    That's all great....but.....

    What about in terms of QSOs per hour, total QSOs, total multipliers, total score, rank among similar stations?

    For example, I know folks who go out on Field Day and consider 15-20 QSOs per hour to be a good rate - even on a band that is open, early in the contest. I also know folks who consider 60 QSOs per hour under the same conditions to be....OK, but nothing to brag about. Neither is "wrong", it's just that "very good results" would be 30 per hour for some folks and 90 per hour for others - same contest, same band, same conditions.

    IOW, got to have a frame of reference.

    What contests, what rate, what totals?
    N2SR likes this.
  2. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Well, a couple of things.
    1. You can't compare one station with a loop to another station with something else. You can only compare your own station to your own station. Location, surroundings, differences in noise sources, differing conditions at different lat/lon, power levels, ground losses, operating times, break times, distraction level, other equipment issues and efficiency, workflow efficiency, operator skill levels, etc., make the numbers meaningless for any antenna comparison. I did the A/B comparison for two antennas at the same location, which is the best you can do. Since you can't run the contest twice, you can only flip back and forth and hope that the test conditions don't change fast enough to make the error too great. And that's what I did.
    2. Absolute numbers are also meaningless. If I made 100 Q's, and 25 mults in contest X, that says nothing about the antenna. It only says that I stayed on the air long enough to get 100 Q's and 25 mults. And that's all.
    If you want more numeric results than my test #3 from my earlier post, you have to go to tests #1 and #2. That's the best you can do.
  3. N2EY

    N2EY Ham Member QRZ Page did you actually do?
  4. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    What difference does it make? You want me to go digging through years of logs to add up my score from a couple of old contests... for what?

    Are you becoming one of these hams who just asks endless questions just because you like to argue? ;) And in other people's threads that have nothing to do with you? :cool:
  5. N2EY

    N2EY Ham Member QRZ Page

    It makes an ENORMOUS difference!

    People make all sorts of claims for various rigs, antennas, etc. - but unless we know what they are comparing something to, their claims don't mean much. Example: Someone buys a new rig and says it is the best rig they've ever had. They're not lying - but unless we know what other rigs they've had, we don't really know very much.

    "Very good results" from an antenna is completely subjective until we know what that means to the writer.

    To get a sense of what you mean by "very good results".

    And you don't have to dig through years of logs. All the ARRL contest scores since about 2002 are in an online database. All anyone needs to do is look up the appropriate contest (say, IARU HF championship, 2015) and a callsign, and see what comes up.

    That you are so reluctant to come up with actual numbers makes me wonder - and not just me....

    Not at all. I'm just looking for information.

    I'm not a big contester, but I do operate FD and CW SS rather seriously. I live on a small suburban lot, with just a homebrew inverted V antenna for 80, 40 and 20. I'm always on the lookout for antenna ideas that will permit me to increase my score and multipliers in SS.

    The best I've done in CW SS from my current location was in 2010: 74,568 points, 478 QSOs, 78 sections, in 19 hours. Almost all S&P. That's a QSO rate of a tad over 25 per hour - not great, but it includes some really slow hours, and some periods when I took a big chunk of time to work what was a rare (for me) section. For 100 watts, 3 bands and a homebrew rig, it's not terrible, though I want to do better.

    I almost broke that 2010 record in 2014 by working 450 QSOs in 80 sections in 18 hours.

    I've worked every ARRL section in CW SS - but never all of them in the SAME CW SS. Almost 50 without a clean sweep...

    Now - would a transmitting loop help me get a higher score and/or more multipliers? Or is my inverted V a better choice? Knowing how well loops have worked out for others would inform that decision.

    "Other people's threads"? A thread belongs to no one.

    "Nothing to do with me?" I'm a lot closer to New York City than you are. Heck, I go there on day trips. I even get the Sunday NYT delivered - great newspaper.

    73 de Jim, N2EY
  6. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Speaking for others, are you? :rolleyes:

    And I have given you more than plenty.

    So in all that self-aggrandizement you just did, you still haven't explained how any single contest score is going to tell you anything about how one antenna compares against another. I explained in detail why you can't get a useful comparison from contest scores, but now you suggest that if I don't go look up my scores and give them to you, you'll assume I'm trying to be deceptive?

    You're trolling in the wrong place, OM. Move on.
  7. W5WN

    W5WN Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Jim, KK5JY makes some excellent points. Here is where comparing scores is an exercise of futility... consider that comparing the number of contacts from one year to another in the same contest can vary significantly due to band conditions, especially with declining sunspot activity. As an example, this time last year I was working a lot of Asian and European stations on 10 meters during morning hours. This year, I haven't heard a single European or Asian station on 10 meters in the morning.
  8. WA9SVD

    WA9SVD Ham Member QRZ Page

    My Heathkit "Cantenna " has a great SWR. The trouble is, I can't hear anything. WHAT can be wrong?:confused: (And yes, I know I'm being sarcastic.)
  9. W9FTV

    W9FTV Ham Member QRZ Page

    The documentation clearly states "Never force the central antenna element into the ear canal" :D
    WZ7U and W4IOA like this.
  10. W4IOA

    W4IOA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Easy assumption considering the author and the fact that more often than not protesting begets protesting. Just looking at the fracturing and schisms created a generation later after the reformation demonstrates it. It also was the impetus that later lead to the U.S. being created and why we have over 36k differing sects in western Christianity. Once you rebel, the next time isn't as difficult.

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