The Ham Radio Friendly HOA Bill needs your support if it is to become Law...

For any viewers not arguing about anything but only interested in "where I can find a home in an HOA where outdoor, visible antennas are allowed without jumping through hoops?" there are such places.

Great example is Sun City West near Phoenix. Amateur radio towers and beams all over the place, and it is an HOA. A fairly unique one. There are a few others, but that one stands out. My friend Ric W0RIC lives there: W0RIC - Callsign Lookup by QRZ Ham Radio If you scan the neighborhood (it's large) you see lots of towers, seems there's one on every block -- hasn't seemed to devalue properties in any way I can find.

 

Antennas are only one of a myriad things which HOAs manage or control. And actually a very minor one at that. If you have a hidden non-conforming shed, a few alpacas or repair Harleys in the back yard and no one notices, it doesn’t matter to anyone except a few people here on the Zed. And it gives them something else to complain about as in “exposing HOAs to liability and ruin”.
If nothing else, this has entertainment value.

 

True, but Sun City West is an anomaly and has a couple of limitations to many. It’s an age 55+ community, and has homes as old as 65 years. The homes are quite nice, well kept, maintain their value for what they are, but lack a lot of the newer modern amenities and conveniences most people desire in homes built in this century. All the newer Sun City developments by Del Webb communities here in AZ and around the country have HOAs and antenna restriction CC&Rs.

 

I get it. But looks to me like the values are fair (and based on a bit of research, homes have doubled in value over the past ten years -- which is typical of most places), homes vary a lot in age (like this one which was built in 1988 and appears very modern: 13767 W Villa Ridge Dr, Sun City West, AZ 85375 [Updated 11/4]), property taxes are very low (like 1/3 of what I pay here), but of course there are HOA dues which add substantially to annual cost.

This one built in 1994 looks very nice: 22216 N Cheyenne Dr, Sun City West, AZ 85375 [Updated 11/5]

...and lots of others. I'm sure you know the area better than I do, but having visited twice I'm impressed and it's a HUGE development, thousands of homes. Several pools and rec centers, their own broadcast station (KSCW), two amateur radio repeaters, golf courses, etc.

True, 55+ community, which sadly pretty much describes most of amateur radio today.

And at least if you're a ham and want to build up a big station at home...you can do it, there.

 

No doubt Sun City West, AZ is a nice place to live for seniors. They ride around the community streets in golf carts. Many homes have been updated, but most were built well before the 1990s. HOA dues are very small. As far as them allowing towers and beams, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any other HOA/CC&R community in the nation that would permit them. But if you're 55+, want a tower/beam in a nice HOA community in AZ, come on out!

For hams though, I don't think I'd want to buy a home with several towers/beams/legal-limit other hams within a block or two from mine. Especially if they're contesters.

 

In law it is the little thing you overlook, that can decide a case. A minor detail can derail a perfect set of CC&RS, words have specific meanings and state defined definitions, minutiae details gives the scrivener headaches, because even a simple deviation can create problems for legal interpretation. People here on the ZED want antenna leeway, now you add alpaca herders, motor cycle maniacs or messenger pigeon enthusiasts yes there can be a mess! The reason to avoid ruin and unseen liabilities to manage the Antenna is adopt a proactive antenna policy.

An HOA mess caused by people’s hobbies and not developing a plan. An Elderly Couple here in Louisiana had racing messenger pigeons, long story short, neighbors decried the pigeons as “animal raising or husbandry” which brought up the HOA complaint brigade. Before the couple could remove the birds , they both passed, the bird shed was torn down by the couple’s children, the birds were free and the house and property sold! The pigeons nested in the Oak Trees and the Eves nearby and what a mess! The neighborhood HOA wants to rid the neighborhood of their guests but Wildlife and Fisheries has been no help they tell us they OK to trap anytime but be careful not to mix them with migratory birds! Hard to trap. Remind me not to let the feral cat lady move in!!

 

While citing various oddball situations and possibilities, I think you're going off on a tangent...getting away from antenna restriction/prohibition CC&Rs.

No matter what reasons the ARRL have based their various bills on (and there have been a lot of them over the years), it all comes down to them just not passing the smell test. Ask any real estate attorney, home builder, or HOA board member, and I'd bet the main reason for the CC&R is to not upset the overall aesthetics and/or the safety of the community. In your opinion, logically what else could it be? We're talking about perceived eyesores to the non-ham neighbors...probably 98+% of the residents.

It's much easier for a CC&R to just *prohibit* all ham radio antennas rather than include a clause that states "...unless approved by the Design Review Committee". That opens up a real can of worms for the HOA/management company. If they give someone an approval, even for *visible* low-profile wires or a vertical, they could be incurring the wrath of a neighbor (or group of neighbors) that still see them as eyesores. Then you have, as an accommodation to *one* person, a possible *bunch* of other residents coming down on and threatening the HOA for a bad decision. Why do they need the aggravation? I know we hams look at antennas as a thing of beauty...but c'mon. It is what it is in an HOA.

ARRL bills will never go anywhere in congress. Stop the complaining, wishing, hoping, and devise a stealth HOA antenna that no one can see (no harm, no foul), or buy elsewhere if visible antennas are your thing. Expecting accommodation for a few in detriment to the overwhelming majority really doesn't make much sense.

 

I know of others...but they are so pricey the average ham may be priced out of contention.

Hidden Hills, CA (suburb of L.A., in Los Angeles County but on Ventura County line) is one. The entire town is an HOA! Every single home. They allow visible antennas and towers and such...but the average home price is in the $5 million range, and many are well over $10 million; as such, it's mostly movie stars, professional athletes, medical doctors, et al. and most (including me) couldn't afford to live there.

They do require "architectural review," but in the cases I know of, it's always approved...maybe because the average lot is over 1 acre and it's difficult to see from one house to the next one. It's also loaded with horse trails and many owners have horses.

My old buddy Dave WA6DKN lived there for many years (although in retirement they moved to Fallbrook, a suburb of San Diego) and had his 5-band Hexbeam up at the top end of his backyard which was so elevated I could see it from more than a mile away. But...again...$$. I think he sold his place for $6.5 million or so.

There are other examples, too...but from my research, they're mostly expensive places. Sun City West is the prime example of an HOA that allows towers and antennas and stuff and is still quite reasonably priced. If we wished to remain in the Southwest, we would have moved there.

 

Deed restrictions and HOA's are two different issues.

 

Quite correct. Some use the terms interchangeably as if to anthropomorphize CC&Rs which makes it easier to criticize. Typically conflated by those who don’t live in an HOA yet here they are telling everyone else how or where to live. Maybe the FCC will add mutual respect as a prerequisite to licensing.

 

It’s amazing how people don’t have a clue…always blaming the HOA. You’re not buying into an HOA…you’re buying into CC&Rs (deed restrictions), which convey with the property. The HOA is only there to enforce the CC&Rs and manage the common areas. They are unpaid volunteers that have to deal with residents that never read or understood the CC&Rs, violate them, and get pissed off at the HOA board for just doing their job. And then get mocked by a stupid TV commercial that gives clueless people the impression HOAs are the problem.

Then you have the misleading real estate ads that claim “NO HOA!”, when there could still be CC&Rs on the property which you are libel to abide by. And your neighbor can be the enforcer even if there is “NO HOA!”. Why not advertise “NO CC&Rs!” if such, and educate the clueless what they mean, and what they’re actually buying into? And stop blaming the HOA for your (or your RE agent’s) negligence.

 

Amateur operators are not restricted by a HOA. They knowingly entered into the contractual agreement.
Freedom of choices. Don't want HOA limitations, don't buy a home there.

 

CC&RS are misunderstood throughout the United States since there are 50 different states, the district of Columbia and the outlying areas or possessions. The developed law on them is very confusing to say the least. Eastern United States has their real estate background Based in the common law of England, which was adopted due to everybody coming from old Blighty. In 1803, Louisiana purchase brought forth French west of the Mississippi, Florida’s acquisition in 1820 brought Spanish law in the Florida and the 1845 1848 acquisition of the American Southwest brought us Spanish law in a great part of the acquired territories. Oregon and Washington acquired common law along with Alaska and Hawaii. Now that everybody is thoroughly conflated, let’s dive in what this actually
Means.

Conditions, covenants, and restrictions developed mainly out of English common law with the fealty system with conditions being placed “burdened” upon land “real estate” what’s the condition it must be in writing and recorded as per the statute of frauds doctrine. To enforce them they must be written.

Roman law also had the written requirement and conditions were written in the land records, loosely styled “building restrictions“ in Roman and later French and Spanish civil law. They became classified as servitudes in civil law. Found in Louisiana, civil has special rules.

The HOA is a separate juridicial person in the form of an Elmasonary Institution, namely a Non Profit Corporation, C4 in nature with the IRS, which basically holds title to all common properties, may oversee utilities or sewage units, as well as being governed by a board which is fiduciary in nature to administer the CC&RS. By Louisiana Law, the Corporation must be mentioned in the CC&RS as the Enabling HOA as per Louisiana Law. Lots of paperwork to keep the corporation current and in Good Standing, Meetings, Minutes and Annual Reports, keep corporate veil from being pierced.

Restrictions can be stand alone also, no HOA but any neighbor can ask for injunctive relief.

When buying a property, condition your purchase agreement to specify what is the item being a deal breaker, get a title search, do not take the Real Estate Agent’s word it might say NO HOA but still has restrictions running on the title.

 

I don't know most of what you said in your previous post, but ^^^^^is exactly what I've said many times before. "NO HOA!" *doesn't mean No CC&Rs*. Real estate agents are the biggest culprits of this deceptive non-disclosure just to make a sale.

 

Real estate agent deception is an ongoing problem. a majority of states have mandated mandatory disclosure rules, but the old rule of Caveat Emptor still applies, investigation should take top shelf when you’re buying a property. Do your own search.