The ARRL and the FCC

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by K9KJM, Oct 13, 2002.

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  1. K9KJM

    K9KJM Ham Member QRZ Page

    I have had mixed emotions about the ARRL
    for many years. I sure do not agree with
    lots of the actions of the ARRL. But I feel
    the ARRL is kind of the "only game in town"
    to help defend amateur radio, So I go on
    being a member, and supporting ARRL.
    The main reason for this post is to give
    credit to Mr Jim Haynie W5JBP for reading
    the various forums and actually responding
    to them. I do not recall any other higher
    ranking ARRL persons making this kind
    of effort to communicate with all hams.
    You can bet I will support Mr Haynie for
    this effort.
    I also feel that the amateur radio community
    in this country is VERY fortunate to have
    Mr Riley Hollingsworth, An active ham himself
    pretty much on "our side"  
    Things could be MUCH worse................  
    Just because all little things do not go exactly
    like you would like them to go, Please do not
    try to blame the wrong people........
     
  2. kk7jk

    kk7jk Banned QRZ Page

    I also support the ARRL and Mr. Hollingsworth, HOWEVER, what has the ARRL and Mr. Hollingsworth done with the unlicensed types within the 10 meter amateur radio band?
    It's a very sad scenairo when unlicensed overtake a legal conversation between 2 or more hams?
    Chaos is already in progress with illegals using a licensed service, will 10 meters go the way of the CB?
    No enforcement of filthy langauge in any service IS the order of the day, turn your head, move the vfo knob, switch bands is not the answer.
    Time, how long is time? Logging, documenting, recording from my point of view is extemely boring, time consuming and little to no results.
    The ARRL and FCC Enforcement in this matter is below a failing grade.
    Writing letters, E-mailing, sending logs & recordings equals a ZERO from ARRL and Enforcement.
    Asking questions of the above also equals a ZERO.
    The longer the POWERS sit on their dupa's the worse the epidemic will spread.
    Effort put forth equals ZERO.
    What is the answer: Priorities and ACTION, swift action on the Enforcement Bureaus side.
    It's also amazing how folks get critized for their very own thoughts.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Writing letters, E-mailing, sending logs & recordings equals a ZERO from ARRL and Enforcement.
    ==============

    How do you know?

    73

    Jim Haynie, W5JBP
    President, ARRL
     
  4. kk7jk

    kk7jk Banned QRZ Page

    First, I sent you a log of my findings on just one days illegal activities on 10 meters, no reply.
    Second, sent in a few magnetic tape recordings to Brennan Price on the 10 meter illegal activity on 10 meters, no reply.
    Third, sent an e-mail to Hollingsworth on my volunteering to travel around Arizona and gather information on the illegal activity I here with regard to Trucker's heard on 10 meters, no reply.
    Anything else?
     
  5. N5LRZ

    N5LRZ Banned QRZ Page

    I will start out by stating for the record that I am a member of the the ARRL.

    Having said this, I must also state that I believe that the ARRL has not got the message and the FCC has gotten the message.

    Hams in general have gotten the idea that money is not necessary and that the FCC will listen because to do so (listen to them) is right and good. BUT, the FCC no longer gets gets its funding thru license fees. It gets its funding via congressional budget acts. The more money the FCC brings into the general fund of the Congress the better their chances of getting more to operate in the next budget.

    If the Ham World as it exists today is going to exist in the next century we had better wake up and sniff the coffee. Politicians have got the purse strings of the FCC and the politicians know very well that money is the mothers milk of politics. Better lobbying and better lunches for the string pullers are needed.

    There is enough blame to go around for everyone. The ARRL is not making the proper moves. The FCC is just protecting its own. The industrial people are just going for little bit bigger piece of the pie. And the Amateur world somehow still thinks a handshake carries weight.

    If we want to protect our frequencies from further exploitation the Amateur world is going to have to open its wallets and outbid those who seek to take them.

    It is a shame that we live in a world such as this. But the world is an imperfect place and we must somehow adapt to the conditions that exist.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kk7jk @ Oct. 13 2002,03:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I also support the ARRL and Mr. Hollingsworth, HOWEVER, what has the ARRL and Mr. Hollingsworth done with the unlicensed types within the 10 meter amateur radio band?
    It's a very sad scenairo when unlicensed overtake a legal conversation between 2 or more hams?
    Chaos is already in progress with illegals using a licensed service, will 10 meters go the way of the CB?
    No enforcement of filthy langauge in any service IS the order of the day, turn your head, move the vfo knob, switch bands is not the answer.
    Time, how long is time? Logging, documenting, recording from my point of view is extemely boring, time consuming and little to no results.
    The ARRL and FCC Enforcement in this matter is below a failing grade.
    Writing letters, E-mailing, sending logs &amp; recordings equals a ZERO from ARRL and Enforcement.
    Asking questions of the above also equals a ZERO.
    The longer the POWERS sit on their dupa's the worse the epidemic will spread.
    Effort put forth equals ZERO.
    What is the answer: Priorities and ACTION, swift action on the Enforcement Bureaus side.
    It's also amazing how folks get critized for their very own thoughts.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    What's the difference between a bunch of bafoons on 10 meters and the interferrence caused by legal broadcasters on 40 meters? In my book, it's a moot point. It's interferrence just the same, and it's caused by sources the individual amateur can do little about and must just work around it.

    Granted, the incursions into 10 meters are a disturbing trend, but many of the illegal operations I've heard are obviously from outside the United States, so what's the FCC supposed to do about it?
     
  7. K9STH

    K9STH Platinum Subscriber Volunteer Moderator Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    For NCR:

    The shortwave broadcast stations that are above 7100 KHz on 40 meters are legal, as you pointed out, even though a lot of amateurs don't seem to know about this! The world is divided into 3 regions and only in Region 3, the one that encompasses North and South America is the 40 meter amateur band 7000 - 7300 KHz. In all other regions the band is only 7000 - 7100 KHz. The band from 7100 - 7500 KHz is allocated for shortwave broadcasting.

    Thus, for 2/3 of the world shortwave broadcasting is the norm for the 7100 - 7300 KHz band and only in 1/3 of the world is amateur radio the norm. Although we consider the broadcasters to be interferring with our operations, they consider our operations to be interferring with them.

    Although there isn't a whole lot that we can do about illegal operations from outside US territory, the FCC can take action against those who operate illegally within US territory. Just &quot;working around&quot; the problem doesn't solve it. Unfortunately, there exists an attitude that &quot;anything goes&quot; by a fair number of non-licensed personnel, and, it seems, by a small minority of licensed amateurs (usually, but not always, newcomers who often are among those who are operating illegally). The FCC has been cracking down on these operators. Very slowly, but they are starting to crack down on them. Also, if you read the enforcement letters published on the ARRL website you will see that licensed amateurs are among those who are being caught operating outside of the amateur bands. Those people who have an amateur radio license can loose their license and be prevented from ever getting another one for their entire lives! This is in addition to fines, confiscation of equipment, etc. Is this possibility worth it? Not for me!

    The &quot;freebanding&quot; hobby is illegal and those who are operating thereon know it. They just like to &quot;flaunt&quot; the law since they have been getting away with it. However, the hammer is starting to fall. Again slowly. But, as more and more of these persons get caught, the word will get out and the freebanders will find some other method of fulfilling their needs.

    Glen, K9STH
     
  8. kk7jk

    kk7jk Banned QRZ Page

    The issue of delibrate interference by unlicensed types outside of the United States is a DIPLOMATIC ISSUE for our elected and appointed officials to address.
    The issue of U.S. type unlicensed is an issue for the U.S.FCC to ENFORCE. Few to none have felt the might of the U.S. Federal sentencing procedures.
    The dam Congressional elected like MONEY, sending it Overseas to each whining country that cries enough, pay more for foreign nations crying, absolutely not. pay for a TRUST FUND to the FCC for ENFORCEMENT, yes. Like the Social Security Trust Fund, look what the elected did to that, there is no longer TRUST in this Great Country of OURS, it's GREED big time. Fraud, selling stamps in the Congress Post Office, bribes, etc.
    Fire each and everyone of THEM.
    FCC better get something soon folks or you can tune into filthy mouths, unlicensed Trucker's, CB'ers and Spanish speaking CHAOS on 10 meters daily, each and every 5Kcs, it's at it's threshold already.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    To KK7JK:

    Yes, you did send us tapes and logs, but while this does confirm the intrusion, it did not give a direction, signal strength or any clue as to the origion. To get the FCC to act promptly, a company name, truck line, or some positive evidence as to the origin of the signal.

    Recently the FCC sent a warning letter to Pilot Truck Stops for selling non type accepted radios. Another warning letter was sent to a truck line about a driver that was transmitting out of band. Trucking companies have enough problems without having to deal with the FCC.

    There are enough hams in the U. S. that if we listened enough, we should be able to get company names. Do that along with the tape and I can get some action.

    I have to wonder about the statement: &quot;The ARRL is not making the proper moves.&quot; What does that mean?

    And Glen, the Americas are in Region 2. Europe is Region 1 and the Asian countries are Region 3. And you are correct, the broadcast stations are in region 1 by in large.

    I just as irritated as you all on the 10 meter problem, but the ARRL does not enforce the law. We do use the OO program to gather information, and it does work as we have submitted several serious cases to the commission and they did take action. Glen may be aware of the case here in Texas just last year, of a person transmitting on 40 and 75 without a license. It cost him $9,400 in fines. Lately, the FCC has taken a more agressive stance with some of the non-ham violations.

    73

    Jim Haynie, W5JBP
    President, ARRL
     
  10. W5JO

    W5JO Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kk7jk @ Oct. 13 2002,03:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Time, how long is time? Logging, documenting, recording from my point of view is extemely boring, time consuming and little to no results.
    The ARRL and FCC Enforcement in this matter is below a failing grade.
    Writing letters, E-mailing, sending logs &amp; recordings equals a ZERO from ARRL and Enforcement.
    Asking questions of the above also equals a ZERO.
    The longer the POWERS sit on their dupa's the worse the epidemic will spread.
    Effort put forth equals ZERO.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    While I agree with you on this matter of enforcing the rules and regulations in RF communications, more specifically, the illegal use of amateur frequencies by unlicensed individuals, understand that the rules and regs. are enforced by adminstrative law and not criminal law.  

    Transmitting on a frequency you are not licensed for is a criminal matter and when the evidence is sufficient, charges will be filed.  However criminal charges require proof beyond a &quot;reasonable doubt&quot; .  Adminstrative law is quite different.  It requires a preponderance of evidence, meaning the evidence must be 51% in favor of the agency filing the charges.

    Adminstrative law judges tend to favor the plantiff in most cases.  This is where you would go as a licensed amateur should you choose to fight a charge in the courts.  Once convicted, you can appeal and then if you are not satifsied, you can go to the Federal Court system.

    Federal officers in the FCC, FAA, EPA and other agencies must first prove their case in adminstrative law and, if during the investigation discover criminal misconduct will turn the evidence over to a criminal law enforcement agency such as the U.S. Marshalls or FBI.  These people do not recognize any tapes or evidence you submit and must develop their own case.  Your evidence is taken into consideration but just as a complaint.  

    Mr. Hollingsworth's evidence can be considered, but again, must be substantiated.  All this takes a long time, so please be patient and cooperate if asked by the investigators.  Do not be discouraged, this is something doesn't happend immediately.  I have seen cases such as these take years to investigate and prosecute.

    Working together we can help the situation.  Keep you chin up and remember right now the criminal branch has it hands full.  Don't stop reporting incidents, since every report goes in the file to be considered.
     
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