Smart lady

Discussion in 'On the Road' started by KL7AJ, Apr 19, 2018.

ad: L-HROutlet
ad: l-rl
ad: l-BCInc
ad: abrind-2
ad: L-Geochron
ad: Left-3
ad: L-MFJ
ad: Left-2
  1. KF5FEI

    KF5FEI Ham Member QRZ Page

    1) Know your limitations -- If you struggled with basic math / science / chemistry, you are probably not engineering material.
    2) Go with your strengths -- If you are one of those folks who can build or fix things, you probably will do well in a trade.
    3) Pursue what interests you -- Don't pick a career you will never like, just because it pays well.
    AC0OB likes this.
  2. WD0BCT

    WD0BCT Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Historically. I think thats going to change based on the number of recent grads unable to find employment in the field of their degree.

    It's getting to be the norm in many professions. Engineers of today travel from company to company (sometimes town to town) following whoever got the recent contract. Clients don't have LTR relationships with any consultant these days.

    My first 20-25 experience as an engineer were pretty good. We were treated like professionals. The last 20 years were increasingly declining. It was getting to the point that you either had a project to charge to or you went home. Especially among the younger engineers. Job hoping is very common among engineers and technical people today. It has been like that among the trades for a longer period of time.

    Engineering, the trades, manufacturing, and retailing are all declining for a number of reasons. The place to be today is in innovative technology (robotics) or healthcare. Then again there is nothing wrong with driving a delivery truck or working restaurants. These areas appear to be going strong.

    If I had to do it all over again I would not choose engineering. I almost went to med school instead of engineering. I would probably choose something in health care today. I have a nephew with a doctorate in Physics. He was enthralled with doing research on particle accelerators. Spent a lot of his grad school in this area. When he graduated positions were hard to find. He ended up in Nuclear Medicine and so far he seems to like it. However, right out of school he found himself job hopping with hired out services to stay employed. After a few years of that he finally got on as a direct employee of a hospital. Things have been much more stable after he gained direct experience.
    AC0OB and N2EY like this.
  3. WD4IGX

    WD4IGX Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    This used to be true, and I used to advocate exactly the same thing. But today's economy is different. The days are gone when any smart person could get a decent job and work up to a good to great one. Plus, this idea that everyone should go to college, along with some of the, um, less rigorous courses available, have deflated the value of a college degree in an unrelated field to nearly nothing. In my parents' (born in 1928 and 1932, in the mountains in East Tennessee - not a city) day a high school diploma guaranteed you an office with a door and your name on the desk. Neither of my parents had (have in the case of my dad) that high school diploma. By the time I was in college in the mid 80s even a bachelor's degree, if unrelated to a specific field in demand, didn't have that kind of sway but it was still valuable. Now? Eh, hardly worth the parchment it's printed on as far as the job market goes.

    I WISH I could agree and dismiss the idea that college is about a job and career, but I see how it is today and, barring real family old money or really good connections, young people today just don't have the luxury. One must also be realistic. I'm also not inclined to think that today's college courses teach the kind of "how to think" as opposed to "what to think" - critical thinking - nor how to really learn as they used to and did. They are now too often more about indoctrination. So even if one could still hold this view I don't think college, at least much of it, represents the kind of rigorous mental training it should and to an extent used to. Add to this the fact that the Internet has made learning about almost any topic that interests you readily available, not always but very often completely free (many free online college courses in many topics) and I just don't see the value in "college for the sake of learning not vocation" anymore. I wish it were otherwise.

    I'm just glad I can see retirement on the horizon rather than having to face this decision, and frankly glad I don't have and never had children that had to face it.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
  4. N2EY

    N2EY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Depends entirely on the field and the area; around here, a high school diploma wasn't an office-with-a-door guarantee - ever.

    What has changed IMHO are three things:

    1) The level of education needed for "entry level" jobs in many fields has risen and risen and risen.

    2) There's more to know today, no matter the field. Just look at the computer skills expected of new hires.

    3) Employers are less and less willing to devote resources to employee education.

    4) The weakening of unions has affected both union and non-union workers.

    I think you mean they don't have the luxury to not be educated - whether at college, or its equivalent in technical/trade education. Being a plumber, electrician, master carpenter, etc., requires education too.

    When was that?

    From what I see required of college students today, there's as much or more required from good schools. And that's the key: not all colleges are the same, or even close.

    Consider who benefits from an uneducated population....

    73 de Jim, N2EY
    K1TGX likes this.
  5. K1DGW

    K1DGW Ham Member QRZ Page

    I spent 27 years in the Army...was trained in electronics (missile systems) and weather forecasting (strange duo, I know). But before I retired from the Army, I learned a bit of IT, which is where I spent the remainder of my working career. I had several industry certifications (MicroSoft, CISCO, etc), but noticed that the guys earning more money had college degrees on top of the certifications. So I went back to an get an undergrad, and then a graduate degree. Some of the hardest times in my life, spending the day working, and evenings and Saturdays in college classes. Sundays were church and homework. No social life. Not much time for the family. No time for playing radio. However, once completed, those degrees opened doors previously closed to me, and by the time I retired (at age 60), I was making a lot of money. So, when my nieces and nephews and other young friends come to me for advice, I tell them to get a college education.
  6. W0KDT

    W0KDT Ham Member QRZ Page

    There is a kind of paradox when people argue that college graduates make more money than non-graduates, so everyone ought to go to college. Let's suppose the more money bit is true. Now, why would you think that increasing the number of college graduates will also increase the number of high paying jobs? Unlikely. Supply rarely drives demand. It does, however, drive prices down.

    I refer to my MSEE as my "trade school" degree. Many degrees are really trade school, like accounting, medicine, etc. This category has financial payback that can justify a considerable investment. But many degrees do not, like English lit, women's studies, etc. So if a student picks a major that probably won't generate a financial payback, he/she better be doing that with eyes open.

    I think that the number of people willing to work with their hands is declining and this is the reason that wages for them are rising. It's not just construction work where this applies. Will this change the job market and the education market in the future? I don't know but I think there is a chance of that happening. Plumbers in rural Northern MN are charging $150/hour.

    Re "Dedicating yourself to making money is a recipe for misery," that's certainly true for some. But living a life of low paying jobs is misery for many more. English lit, anyone?
  7. AF7TS

    AF7TS Ham Member QRZ Page

    College degrees certainly have value, however I think that the path that you took (getting a college degree _after_ you had significant experience) made the degree more valuable and made you more valuable as an employee.

    Amongst her various skills, my partner teaches statistics and mathematics. She has taught at community colleges and at 'business schools'. She has noted that the adults in the community college were there to _learn_, and knew how important it was. The 'kids' in the business school were busy trying to figure out the minimum they could do to get the grades, and were always complaining about the requirements or tough grading.

    I know that I went to college without the experience to really take advantage of it, and I am trying to teach my kids to value education and to value the need to _work_ for it. Which is why I think that it makes sense for the young woman mentioned in the OP to go to trade school and _then_ go to college.

    WD4IGX likes this.
  8. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    The paradox comes in when people fail to realize why this was true. Intelligent people used to go to college. What's happened is people failed to realize this connection between intelligence and income.

    Intelligent people will be able to find work, though not necessarily in the field they studied in college. What's happened is that because of bad court decisions and bad laws employers were forbidden from giving intelligence exams to applicants. Being unable to separate the intelligent people another way they pushed this onto the colleges to filter out the less intelligent, because a college degree used to be worth something until people got the idea that we could make people more intelligent by sending them to college.

    Sending people to college to make them intelligent makes as much sense as sending people to the NBA to make them taller. What can happen though is that an economy can grow, demands shift, technology advances, where we can in fact create more high paying jobs.

    People should go to college if it helps them advance their career. We do in fact need English literature majors, though perhaps not as many as we have now. There's almost always room in college, and in life, to follow your passion and to find a good income.

    Mike Rowe says it best here:

    "Never follow your passion, but bring it with you."
    WD4IGX likes this.
  9. WD4IGX

    WD4IGX Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Not exactly. I mean they don't the luxury of being generally educated without specific marketable job-related education.
  10. N2EY

    N2EY Ham Member QRZ Page that makes sense!

    However, note this:

    - It used to be that many employers would hire people with little in the way of job-specific education and/or experience, but who had the willingness and aptitude to learn. The employer would do the training. In fact some employers preferred such new hires, because the employer could then teach them "the company way" without having to "overwrite" what they'd learned elsewhere. Today, many employers want people who are already trained in specific skills.

    - In many sectors the requirements keep shifting, so that it is difficult to predict what will be a "marketable job-related education" some years down the road. For example, if someone is in 11th grade right now, what should they do after HS graduation? What fields will be hiring when they get out of college or technical school, 3 to 5 years from now?

    - Not everyone has the aptitude for every job.

    - Many jobs look good from the outside but are a different story on the inside. People talk about "the trades" and "plumbers make good money", but often have little real insight into what those jobs actually entail.

Share This Page

ad: M2Ant-1