Should amatuer radio operators have to pass a backround checks

Discussion in 'Survey Center' started by KB2CRK, Sep 13, 2010.


backround check for licensees?

  1. Yes

    19 vote(s)
  2. No

    40 vote(s)
  3. Only if they are found to break the rules.

    3 vote(s)
  4. Only if they fail thier drug screening.

    2 vote(s)
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  1. W1KU

    W1KU Ham Member QRZ Page

    I didn't say everything was wrong, I said I liked hardened-cockpit doors, no cooperating with hijackers, air marshals, and screening of checked bags which should have been done 23 years ago.

    My alternative/plan? In short since this is OT. First, abolish the domestic no-fly list which has never caught an actual bad guy, stop the war on water (the liquid threat is extremely improbable when you look at the chemistry of liquid explosives--if you mix the thing after security, you need lab equipment; if you mix it before security, it is so unstable it will go boom before you get to the airport), abolish the ID checks, abolish the shoe carnival, abolish the "behavior detection officers" which were scientifically debunked by a recent article in Nature and have little impact but harassing innocent people (see, and use the strip search machines only for voluntary secondary screening of people who have medical implants etc and which to avoid a patdown. That will all a massive reduction in the size of TSA and will make the remaining TSA much more effective at detecting weapons and explosives. (They currently have failure rates as high as 80% for things like guns because they are so distracted by toothpaste.) Take the $ that would be saved by abolishing all of these things, and allocate it equally to 4 things:

    a) dramatically *increasing* use of explosive-trace-detection (e.g., the swabs), which is a *highly* effective screening technique that will alarm if a person or their bags have been near explosives recently (including liquid explosives and their precursors). At least 20% of passengers should have an item (bag, shoe, etc.) or their hand swabbed; that would be a real deterrent and substantially reduce the risk of explosives getting by. 40% would be better. Explosive trace detection is real security. In addition, finish installing the advanced 3D x-ray machines for carry-on luggage that are needed to replace 70s-era technology. More real security.

    b) give the $ to FBI (not DHS) to increase terrorism investigations, within the bounds of the law and using "archaic" tools like informants, leg work, and search warrants. Good police work is key. Waiting for a terrorist to get to the airport and get caught at a checkpoint is stupid and risky; the best place to disrupt them is before they get there.

    c) give the $ to CIA (not DHS) to increase international terrorism investigations and intelligence gathering. Again, good police work and good intelligence.

    d) deficit reduction.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
  2. AF6LJ

    AF6LJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    I would add more but I'm sure it would be taken as political and the thread closed. I would not like to see that happen as this thread is productive.
  3. KC8VWM

    KC8VWM Ham Member QRZ Page

    How is it possible for a "tourist" to provide the FCC with a Social Security Number as required for FCC ULS registration if they are only "visiting" here from another country?

    When did they start issuing Social Security Numbers to all foreigners and tourists?

    Secondly, what form of photo identification documentation would they produce to the VE during testing? (another requirement for licensing.) Would it be acceptable for a drivers license or other form of "official" U.S. photo identification for such testing purposes to list a P.O. box instead of a physical address? Even if a VE did accept a SAMS club membership card as identification for the test instead of a drivers license, you are still required to supply an SSN# to the FCC to register on the ULS to obtain a CORES FRN number. (another licensing requirement.)

    How does a tourist from another country even secure an SSN# or U.S. drivers license or any other form of acceptable U.S. identification in the first place if they are only visiting here as a tourist?

    These things are mandated requirements before anyone can apply and obtain an amateur radio license from the FCC.

    It's not like anyone can just walk in off the street and get a US amateur radio license. There are "official" photo identification and SSN# requirements.

    I'll let you think about that entire process for a moment and I am wide open to any explanations describing how any tourist would somehow manage to get around and bypass all such requirements... :)
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
  4. KT1F

    KT1F Ham Member QRZ Page

    Well ... maybe you're correct, I'm not sure. An FRN number can be used instead of an SSN. Do you need to supply an SSN to get a FRN? Not according to this form. You can specify that you're foreign and don't have one. A foreigner could submit that form, get an FRN and give that to the VE.

    There are certainly lots of people who are neither a US citizen or resident who have a US callsign. That's something that has come up recently in the debate about vanity callsigns. Lots of the 1x2 and 2x1 calls are held by non citizens and the ARRL is recommending that they be restricted to citizens only. I can't say for sure of course but I'd be very surprised if all those foreigners with the vanity calls have an SSN from a previous time when they were a US resident.

    Passport. No problem there at all.

    No they can't walk in off the street but I think with some forward planning to get an FRN they can get a US license.

    You can look up the regulations but if I recall correctly, the part 97 rules basically say anyone who passes the exam can have a license. It says nothing about citizenship, residency etc. You just can't be a representative of another country (eg a diplomat).
  5. KE5WDP

    KE5WDP Ham Member QRZ Page

    I am not gonna judge somebody for their past actions. I don't believe the FCC should either.

    We have ALL done something that many would call immoral. We ALL make mistakes. And for those of you who think that you are better than a felon, I bet you have some skeletons in your closet.
  6. AB2T

    AB2T Ham Member QRZ Page

    I don't know about "proof of residence". A mail drop (P.O. Box, Mail Boxes Etc., an American friend or relative) is more than enough "residence" in the eyes of the FCC.

    Same is true in other countries. I'm not giving up my Canadian ham license if/when I move back to the States. I'm going to "park" it up north with a mailing address if I leave to go home for good. This is perfectly legit -- all spelled out in the Industry Canada ham radio legislation.

    I think the ARRL request to restrict 1x2 and 2x1 to citizens won't materialize because of the legal contradictions inherent in this policy. Up until now an American mail drop has been the only requirement for a US ham license. Residency and citizenship are irrelevant. Laws requiring proof of citizenship for a short callsign would apply by corollary to any non-US citizen ham that holds an American call. The FCC cannot reserve one type of call sign for US citizens/legal aliens and open all other call signs to anyone with a mail drop. Either all calls are available or all calls are reserved for citizens. Anything else is a double standard that I doubt would hold up in a court of law.

    73, Jordan
  7. KG4CGC

    KG4CGC Ham Member QRZ Page

    This is often very true but, we have a justice system in place that prosecutes people and said people do their time and whatever else the judge orders and they pay their debt back to society.

    Part of my personal investigation into the area of why background checks may or may not be important is the simple fact even if a person has paid their debt and are a free person, they are never really free because we as a people chose to not forgive those who have made and paid for their mistakes.

    This attitude is exactly the way people lived under oppressive regimes in the old Soviet Union and current regimes like in North Korea and other parts of the world.

    Should we not continue to label a man a "criminal" after he has paid his debt? If he can't find a job after paying his debt, what is left for him?
  8. KC8VWM

    KC8VWM Ham Member QRZ Page

    FRN Registration ("Doing business with the FCC)

    4. If you are doing business with the FCC, you must register for an FRN. The online application process is the same for domestic and foreign registrants, with only minor differences in the data collected

    Should I register as a sole proprietor business or as an individual?

    If you applied for an Employer Identification Number (EIN) within the U.S. state or territory where you do business, register as a "Business," selecting "Private Sector" and then "Sole Proprietor" as your business type.

    If you are doing business as an individual and you use your Social Security Number (SSN) as your business identification, register as an individual.

    What will happen if I fail to obtain a FRN?

    You will be unable to do business with the FCC. It is mandatory that you obtain and use your registration number with any filing requiring a Entity Identification Number or Social Security Number.

  9. VE3PP

    VE3PP XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    How about a Spell Check?;)

    I thought we were trying to encourage people to become Amateur Radio ops, not discourage them. :confused:

    Your Government lets people run around with guns and you think a back ground check is necessary to get a Ham Ticket?

    I see no need for this requirement. It is not like you will be hanging around a school yard with your shiny new HT waiting for kids to come out and play.

    Background tests for doctors, public employees, police etc etc yes. But not for an Amateur ticket.
  10. KB2CRK

    KB2CRK Ham Member QRZ Page

    it is only a poll.
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