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Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by NN6EE, Feb 13, 2002.

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  1. NN6EE

    NN6EE Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    For a number of years here in Northern California the Mt. Diablo Radio Club, W6CX/R, has operated, even NOW, a wide coverage amateur TV repeater that is OUT OF BAND!!! To assure the greatest number of public viewers, the repeater was placed on Cable Channel 58, which is 427.25 Mhz. This particular choice in frequency: PLACES THE REPEATER OUT OF BAND!!! Obviously a FLAGRANT VIOLATION of Part97 rules!!! Now Riley, ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION??? Hmmmmmm???

    "47 CFR 97 prohibits Repeater and Auxilliary Stations from operating in the 431.0-433.0 as well as the 435.0-438.0 Sub-bands!!!" The 431-433 segment is RESERVED for WEAK-SIGNAL OPERATION!!! The 427.25 ATV carrier frequency places the AUDIO CARRIER on 431.75 Mhz. An individual can hear it's IDer EVERY 10 minutes on 431.75!!! This is broadcast throughout a good portion of Northern California from the Repeater's 4000' high site atop our most prominent natural landmark here in the Bay Area, it is MT. DIABLO!!!

    In my requested reply to Mr. Hollingsworth about the supposed violation, by me, of Part 97.205e. So I  notified him, in that same letter, of their GLARING VIOLATION concerning the operation of said ATV repeater, now over 1 YEAR AGO!!! Now remember Kids, this is the same group of integrity that did not wish to have me utilize their illustrious CX system!!!

    This true on-going story is to prove to ALL that it gives one the picture that Mr. Riley Hollingsworth carrys on his Enforcement Business using a "DOUBLE STANDARD"!!! FAIRNESS??? Yah Right!!! Oh, by the way Kids, you'll be happy to know my life goes ON in spite of Riley's whimsical actions!!!
    PS, Part of the technical crew of the CX system are ALSO ARRL OOs!!! Son of a Gun!!!

    73, Jim Davis/nn6ee [​IMG]
  2. K9STH

    K9STH Platinum Subscriber Volunteer Moderator Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    One minor thing: 431 - 433 MHz is not "reserved" for weak signal operation although virtually all of the weak signal operation does go on in this segment. The only provision is that repeater outputs are forbidden in this segment per CFR 47 97.205(b).

    It is legal to use all recognized forms of emissions including "wide band" television on these frequencies. However, various "band plans" definitely frown on use of some of these emission types in the 431 - 433 MHz range.

    Glen, K9STH
  3. KD5KUF

    KD5KUF Guest

    I have discovered on my own that the ARRL and the FCC will avoid getting into a ham vs ham disagreement unless a complaint comes in from a party unassociated from either of the first comers in the dispute.
    I have a nearby packet digipeater on 145.510 that continually blasts a signal that either desenses my rig or plasters a full scale signal in increments across the entire 2 meter band and into the police and public service bands. This is on every receiver I can get my hands on (including commercial vhf rigs) at 1/4 mile + from the tower. I was told by everyone consulted that I might have to buy a filter or learn to live with it.
    I was told we couldn't infringe upon the other hams rights, but my rights don't seem to matter. Whether or not I can use a particular frequency, even one not in use by anyone else, is unimportant as long as his right to an overbearing signal is protected. [​IMG]
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Just remember.. there are always people whose mantra is.. was.. and always will be..

    'Don't confuse me with the facts! My mind's made up!'


    Chuck K3FT
  5. NN6EE

    NN6EE Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6nkf @ Feb. 13 2002,23:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As usual, IBD is running mouth with brain disengaged!  The output of the ATV machine is an auxillary transmitter with a carrier output of 427.250 Mhz in accordance with the ARRL band plan.  The audio subcarrier is at 431.750 Mhz with a max of 25Kc deviation.  The repeater is in and out on 1200 band. The 427 output is so that newcomers can see the picture on cable TV channel 58 for a simple hookup of an antenna to the TV while dialed to cable channel 58, which is 427.250 Mhz. This has been explained to the FCC, and they have no heartburn with it. Take a Tum's Jim, and crawl back in your hole!!

    W6NKF[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Mr. NKF, Your own babblings boogle the mind, you've always been CONSISTENT in that respect!!! Can't expect anything more intelligent from most ex-COPs like yourself anyway!!!

    Oh, by the way BOY, my Internet IDer is W6IBD, my on the Air ID is &quot;nn6ee&quot; (Legal present call) but I know that's way over your pin-head too!!!

    The FACTS speak for themselves!!!

    Have a nice day!!!

    73, JD/nn6ee  [​IMG]
  6. K9STH

    K9STH Platinum Subscriber Volunteer Moderator Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    I have to &quot;take up for&quot; Jim in this one.

    Although the local organization is calling the transmitter an &quot;auxillary&quot; transmitter makes no difference. It is still part of a repeater system and, therefore, is banned from transmitting in the 431 - 433 MHz band. The transmitter is retransmitting signals from the 1200 MHz band, and therefore, by definition, is repeating the signals. This is black and white!

    The fact that the FCC is &quot;ignoring&quot; the situation is, in my opinion, &quot;not good&quot;! If the organization that is operating the repeater has gotten a &quot;waiver&quot; from the FCC to allow this operation, then that is a different matter. However, such a waiver should definitely be in writing and be made available to anyone who wishes to see it.

    Now, Jim has been playing by the rules lately, and his post questioning the legality of the particular repeater is, in my opinion, a legitimate post. For those who are starting to get &quot;personal&quot;, I definitely suggest getting back to the original subject. If you have some information that is in regard to a waiver, etc., for this &quot;apparently&quot; illegal operation, then such information should definitely be made available. But, I will not let this discussion &quot;lapse&quot; into a name-calling &quot;brohauha&quot; that some of the previous discussions on this forum have degenerated into.

    Glen, K9STH
    (one of the moderators)
  7. NN6EE

    NN6EE Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Dear Glen,
      Your last post was eloquently put!!! My hat off to you OB!!!

    Tennis anyone??? Now the BALL is in the other guy's court!!! Match point anyone???

    Damn, I love this HOBBY!!!

    73s all around, Jim Davis/nn6ee [​IMG]
  8. K9STH

    K9STH Platinum Subscriber Volunteer Moderator Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    There is no problem with the video carrier frequency of the ATV repeater. However, there is a problem with the audio carrier frequency since this is being repeated into the 431 - 433 MHz region. Since the FCC is apparently aware of the operating characteristics of this repeater, then is it &quot;safe&quot; to &quot;assume&quot; that the FCC has granted a waiver for its operation? If the FCC has not granted an official (i.e. in writing) wavier, I definitely suggest getting such a waiver as soon as possible.

    All it would take is one inquiry from &quot;The Hill&quot; (Member of The House of Representatives or U.S. Senator) and the FCC would most probably have to &quot;shut down&quot; the ATV repeater unless they (the FCC) have already issued an official waiver. If one, or more, amateur radio operator(s) were to write their Member(s) of Congress (two Senators and one Representative) complaining about the fact that the audio carrier is indeed being retransmitted into the &quot;banned&quot; area, and if that Member of Congress chose to pursue the matter (and most would at least have their staff pursue the matter), the FCC would be put into the very &quot;nasty&quot; position of blatantly not enforcing their own regulations. Like virtually all Federal regulatory agencies, the FCC is VERY much aware of the influence of the elected officials and does not like to &quot;upset the apple cart&quot; by getting official inquires from them. Thus, the FCC would most likely chose to have the repeater cease operation immediately.

    If the repeater does, in fact, have a written waiver from the FCC, then that fact should be made known. If it does not have such a waiver, then one should be immediately obtained. Otherwise, even though the repeater has been in operation for some time, it is very much in danger of being ordered &quot;off the air&quot;.

    Glen, K9STH
  9. NN6EE

    NN6EE Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    OH! OH! Jay/KT6Y,

    You'd better Email NKF again Jay, QUICK!!! Glen's RIGHT and this will be another TOUGH ONE to weasel your way out of!!!

    Have a Grrrrreat Day OL'Chum,

    JIM/nn6ee  [​IMG]
  10. WA4MJF

    WA4MJF Banned QRZ Page

    Well, the simple solution to this is to amke the
    70cm circuit an auxiliary system.

    This would be a ham station that is transmitin'
    commo from point A to point B within a system of
    ham stations.

    So put in another repeater on 33 cm which they
    don't seem to use and use the 70 cm to link to the
    23 cm repeaters (or what ever they are on).

    Any reception by folks with cable ready receivers
    would be incidental to the main auxilary station

    Ok, time for the arm chair lawyers to chime in.

    73 de Ronnie
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