RASA proposes 60m trial in VK

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by G4TUT, May 17, 2019.

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  1. KQ6XA

    KQ6XA Ham Member QRZ Page

    If WIA and RASA continue to call it "The Hobby", they stupidly weaken their case for allocations.
    When working with ACMA or talking about the allocation in a public way or on websites, they should only be referring to it as "Amateur Radio Service", Amateur Radio, or possibly Ham Radio.

    It makes a difference.

    ACMA lists "hobby radiocommunications" equally with"technical experimentation".
    ACMA says:
    • An amateur apparatus licence is issued to authorise a station that:
      • is operated for the purposes of self-training in radiocommunications, intercommunication using radiocommunications and technical investigation into radiocommunications by persons who do so solely with a personal aim, and who have no pecuniary interest in the outcome of the operations of the station;

    Here is a blurb about Amateur Radio Service as ITU views it.
    ITU says:
    • Amateur and Amateur-satellite are fully recognized radiocommunication services defined in the Radio Regulations (RR) of the International Telecommunication Union - ITU
    • The amateur service is one of the oldest radio service and pre-dates regulation of radiocommunication.
    • In 1912, amateurs could use any frequency above 1.5 MHz, as these frequencies were regarded “of no value for marine, governmental and commercial communications” or “undesirable and scarcely useful”.
    • By 1924, amateurs made way for other services in bands above 1.5 MHz.
    • Today, the amateur service operates in relatively small allocations throughout the spectrum.
    • The 1963 World Administrative Radio Conference created Footnote 284A, which states: “In the band 144-146 MHz, artificial satellites may be used by the amateur service”. The amateur-satellite was created and given frequency allocations at the 1971 Space WARC.
    • Self-training is an important purpose of the amateur services, as articulated in the definition of the amateur service in No. 1.56 of the RR. Radio amateurs have made significant technical contributions to the fields of radio propagation, high frequency single sideband radiotelephone, HF data communications, packet radio protocols and communication satellite design.
    • No. 25.9A of the RR encourages administrations to allow amateur stations to support disaster relief. Amateur radio continues to provide basic radiocommunications especially in the early days of a disaster following the loss or overloading of normal telecommunications networks.
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
    VK2ACR likes this.
  2. KQ6XA

    KQ6XA Ham Member QRZ Page

    ITU defines Amateur Radio as being for the purpose of:
    1. self-training
    2. intercommunication
    3. technical investigations

    ITU RR 1-1 , Article 1.
    • Terms and definitions
      • 1.56 amateur service: A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, by duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.
    ITU doesn't call it "the hobby", and neither should hams who are trying to obtain formal spectrum allocations.

    There are those who use ham radio as a hobby for themselves.
    But that doesn't inherently make the Amateur Radio Service itself a hobby.

    A hobby doesn't rise to much value in the level of importance of international treaties.
    There's little reason to devote precious global spectrum resources to protect a hobby.

    Definition of hobby , noun; UK: hɒb.i / US : ˈhɑː.bi/
    : a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation
    : an interest or activity engaged in for pleasure
    :activity that someone does for pleasure when they are not working

    Dictionary examples of hobby:
    Writing is just a hobby of his.
    Her hobbies include gardening and bird-watching.

    Angela's hobby is restoring vintage motorcycles.
    He needs a hobby to keep him busy and stop him from getting into mischief.
    The students sidetracked their teacher into talking about her hobby.
    Rebecca's main hobby is trampolining.
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
    VK2ACR likes this.
  3. VK3WL

    VK3WL Ham Member QRZ Page

    RASA and cronies have supported, and now 'affiliated' with an AR examination and callsign management provider that is providing a 1980s style outcome regressive viz-z-viz what the WIA provided. Demonstrably RASA has as its agenda to destroy the WIA and create mayhem along the way. At only $8 per year membership RASA can never do what the WIA does. Anyone that thinks they can is living in economic nuff-nuff land. If anyone thinks this is possible, provide me with a details business case that illustrates how this will work. To date, and despite challenges, no one has.
    VK2ACR, WU8Y and VK7JAM like this.
  4. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Semantic arguments about hobbies and services aside, Australia is not America, the issue remains that there are over 480 Assignments allocated to commercial users within the international 60M band. Firstly the ACMA needs to find other suitable spectrum for them and then has to justify forcing them to upgrade all their radios so a few hobbiests can take over that space. Lots of money, lots of work for very little outcome. So it is never going to happen anytime soon, rasa publicity stunt or not. Reality is just not meeting with anyones pipe dreams, something Mr Ireland in his enthusiasm likes to ignore.
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
    VK2ACR likes this.
  5. VK6LTC

    VK6LTC Ham Member QRZ Page

    Congratulations RASA keep up the good work. I believe that we should seek a trail for a 60m allocation. An eventual allocation on these proposed frequencies would bring Australia in line with the rest of the world. Having been a user of 5360 for many years with RFDS (who no longer use this frequency) and listen there regularly still, there is only a minute amount of traffic,if any. What traffic being heard, is by roo shooters and outback travellers not willing to join a 4wd network and pay for a licence. Most 4WD clubs are not monitoring this frequency for urgent voice traffic, as all breakdowns and contacts are now instigated by a data connection (Selcall) on some 40 other channels they all have. All licences issued on 5360 are not allocated for Data use. The other two frequencies 5351 - 5355, It would have been 2 years since I heard any voice communications there.

    As an owner and operator of one of these HF 4Wd radio networks for the last 26 years I see no reason why a few hams with secondary or primary rights,would cause any interference with their operation.

    RASA, its pleasing to see an organisation such as yours going in to bat for the amateur radio community. The same values that gave us SCOMO for another term.

    We'll only succeed by mowing on.

    Keep up the good work.
    Terry Clinch (VK6FLTC)
  6. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Steven if you want to respond to my comments do so here, I will not be replying to your long winded emails. You asked for information, here it is specifically the draft 5 year outlook on ACMA's website which outlines how its going to further approach this issue. Biggest hurdle is DEFENCE rejected the plan 2 years ago. But acma will look at again in early 2020 and open it again for discussion. Can you see now how rasa is just tilting at windmills and out for publicity rather than contributing anything meaningful to the discussion?

    VK2ACR and VK5SA like this.
  7. KQ6XA

    KQ6XA Ham Member QRZ Page

    ITU is not "America", it is the International Telecommunications Union.
    Australia is party to it.

    Click here to see the ACMA register of Radiocommunications Licences 5350 kHz to 5370 kHz in Australia.


    (The listing may not include governmental licences.)

    Note that WIA already has a registered commercial HF channel at 5355.0 kHz USB (5356.5 kHz center) with callsign AXF405. This channel is entirely within the ITU 60 metre Amateur Radio Service. It is shared with many other emergency services.
    Click here:


    If the RFDS (Royal Flying Doctor Service) is no longer using its old 5360.0 kHz USB channel, then that might possibly be the best chance for an opening for an Amateur Radio Service secondary channel allocation in Australia.

    There is a channel above at 5364.0 kHz USB with many emergency services on it.
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
    VK2ACR likes this.
  8. KQ6XA

    KQ6XA Ham Member QRZ Page

    So, if the only factor is the ACMA registered licences, it is really a matter of whether RFDS
    MEEKATHARRA remote transmitter site could be persuaded to give up 5360.0 kHz USB/LSB/AM.

    That would create a 6 kHz gap.

    If RFDS would agree to give it up, then an Amateur Radio Service (secondary non-interference basis) has a chance to fit 2 Upper Sideband 2.8 kHz channels that are fully within the ITU 60 metre band:

    • 5358.0 kHz USB
    • 5361.0 kHz USB
    See ACMA Register at 5 MHz, where the possible 6 kHz gap is marked below:


    However, if mil has an unlisted channel there (not listed in the ACMA) then it looks more difficult.

    But, if ACMA is genuinely concerned about ham radio splatter causing adjacent channel interference, it could allocate 1 channel at 5359.5 kHz USB. That would leave some breathing space between it and the emergency services.
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  9. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    It is not a simple matter of having the RFDS transmitter change frequencies, there are probably at a guess 100o's of mobiles and base radios in remote communities and stations that connect to it. This is also the primary frequency of all RFDS radio operations in Western Australia. Its users include police and ambulance, 4WDers, cattle stations, mines, caravaners and the like.

    That one transmitter services millions of square kilometres of Western Australia. An area as big as California, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Oragon, Nevada, Utah and Idaho combine. Who s paying for all those radios to be either replaced or reprogrammed? What suitable spectrum will they be moved to? Don't think you fully appreciate the scale of what the Royal Flying Doctor represents to outback Australia or the scope of its services.

    See: http://www.swld.com.au/pages/aus_rfds.htm
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  10. VK3VM

    VK3VM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    As I stated earlier, a proposal on these matters has been put forward - and on paper - that covers everything that naysayers and knockers bring up.

    Rather than conjecture, bullying and trolling (mentioning RASA always brings up trolls), ask RASA for their document. Ask the WIA for their documents (if they exist).

    Compare. See which ones are genuine, professional and evidence-based. Comment not here as this divides - but comment professionally, with evidence and most importantly with careful respect to The Regulator (at lais@acma.gov.au ). That is an address to the front-end to the ACMA's "contact centre" that handles AR's interests.

    If you do not ask ... you do not get. If you do not have a good reputation with Government (i.e Canberra) then you have no chance of being listened to.

    Trolling, bullying, harassment and infighting just ensure that we get put into a corner and ignored. Quite a lot of this is seen already here in these postings.

    That is what I am trying to knock heads together about. I am trying to END the bullying (through isolation and harassment) and trolling. I am trying to get Amateurs back on Radio and off De-Facebook !

    Differentiation and competition is good and healthy and is at the heart of democracy.

    Doesn't having a single organisation stink of totalitarianism - control concepts centric to works from Marx, Engels, Mao and surprisingly to the other extreme Mein Kampf ? [ Yes I have read such works and find concepts from these authors/documents to be completely vile from an ethical academic and personal perspective].

    Competition "keeps the buggers honest" as SK Australian Politician Don Chipp used to say.

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