Questions about identifying

Discussion in 'Becoming an Amateur Radio Operator/Upgrading Privi' started by KF7EIF, Sep 1, 2009.

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  1. KF7EIF

    KF7EIF Ham Member QRZ Page

    Please forgive yet another newbie question (but Elmers corner is the right place for this kind of question, right?)

    I know you need to identify with your callsign every 10 minutes, but is there an exception to that for a net?

    Also, what if I get on a frequency identify "KF7EIF monitoring" and don't hear anything. Am I supposed to re-identify or sign off in 10 min?

    What about going out of range? If I am talking with several people and while others are discussing something, I go out of range of that repeater, should I still call and sign off even if they probably can't hear me?

    So much to learn.

    Thanks
     
  2. K7JEM

    K7JEM Ham Member QRZ Page

    No, not really. But if you gave your callsign during your last comments, you have fully identified. If you didn't give your callsign, then you have 10 minutes from the last callsign transmission.
    No. You gave your callsign in the only transmission you made, there is no need to give it again.
    The rules don't require the callsign to go through the repeater, so you can ID anytime on the input channel, even after going out of range.

    Joe
     
  3. AI3V

    AI3V Ham Member QRZ Page

    No.

    No.

    Yes.

    Rege
     
  4. K0CMH

    K0CMH Ham Member QRZ Page

    I will give another twist on your questions. There are the actual regulations, then there are "good operating practices", and then there are Ham traditions.

    " know you need to identify with your callsign every 10 minutes, but is there an exception to that for a net?"

    The other answers posted before are accurate regarding what the FCC regulations require. In the real world, you may hear some Hams involved in a net not get an ID in before the net closes on them. Some Hams will then give and ID and "clear" and some won't, because it is not really a big thing. The concept is that they were operating in good faith and trying to comply with the regulations, but is it really practical, etc. If you are inclined to follow the rules to the letter, then a safe practice is to always include your callsing in every transmission so that no matter what happens, you are covered, i.e., your last transmission was properly identified and you have no more need to ID again.

    "Also, what if I get on a frequency identify "KF7EIF monitoring" and don't hear anything. Am I supposed to re-identify or sign off in 10 min?"

    Good Operating Practices and Ham traditions do not require you to say anymore, even if you leave the frequency or trun off the radio. No one answered you and you made no call to a specific call sign or need. However, If you called for a particular call sign, or asked for help, etc., then it is good practice and tradition to indicate that you are no longer calling. There could be someone holding off use of the repeater to see if you make your contact. It is good to let anyone know you have given up and are not expecting any return, and that the repeater is clear for anyone else.

    "What about going out of range? If I am talking with several people and while others are discussing something, I go out of range of that repeater, should I still call and sign off even if they probably can't hear me?"

    The rules are not real clear about ID and are open to intrepratation. The rules state that an ID is required every 10 minutes. This can be interprated as: if you are in a conversation that lasts 6 minutes, and you IDed withiin that 6 minutes, you have complied with the requirements. Other may not agree with thisinterpratation. So it is something of a gray area. However, good operating practices and Ham traditions do indicate an attempt to ID is good.

    Another issue would be attempting to ID on the repeater's output frequency. This could possibly interfer with someone who is now using the repeater. So transmission on a repeater output frequency may not be the best approach. But transmitting on the input frequency would be ineffective - so why bother? Again, using the good operation practice of including your call in each transmission would eliminate any problem.

    I am not endorsing violation of rules and good practices. However, there are times when practicality needs to be considered. We are in the areas of "how bad is it to let our car drift 1 mph over the speed limit for a moment during a trip". Sometimes even the police don't want to bother with it. If that is all you did, people will still consider you a good driver.

    "So much to learn."

    Yes. I think that by asking these questions you are displaying the desire to be a "good operator". We all make little errors and small infractions of the absolute rules, even the best of Hams. An example would be forgetting to get the ID in before we loose the repeater. A mistake now and then is not a big thing. It is the repeat offender and sloppy operator that is a problem. So all we ask is to try and do the best you can and learn from any mistakes. I think you are on the right track. Keep up the good work and please come back to ask your questions. This is the right place.
     
  5. KF7EIF

    KF7EIF Ham Member QRZ Page

    Thanks for all the comments. I appreciate the positive feedback and will continue to turn to you here for advice and suggestions. I look foreword to continuing to learn and grow in this great new world.

    Thanks
     
  6. K7JEM

    K7JEM Ham Member QRZ Page

    From the rules:

    The rule doesn't require you to ID during a 6 minute conversation, but it is required at the end. An ID 3 minutes into the conversation is good, but you are still required to ID at the end.

    Also, no exemption is given if you drive out of range of a repeater. You still have to ID on your transmitting channel.

    Joe
     
  7. KC7YRA

    KC7YRA Ham Member Volunteer Moderator QRZ Page

    Good on ya for asking the question and wanting to do it right.

    NOW that you know the legal procedure, don't be so afraid/ignorant that you identify EVERY transmission.

    Nothing makes me wanna choke an op more than when they identify every time they speak. It is entirely too often and does nothing but clog the airwaves with filler. 10 minutes is a long time. Most of my contacts aren't even near that long for the whole thing.

    Be sure you are within the legal guidelines but don't overdo it. Your fellow ops will appreciate it.

    Good luck and have fun.
     
  8. KA4AAA

    KA4AAA Ham Member QRZ Page

    In this case, which is frequent (I'm well within HT simplex range of three major roads, twice as many large intersections, and one major highway), I'll quite often just announce on 146.520, "KF4YOR monitoring" (sometimes announce I'm a base station so folks I DO talk to don't suddenly drop out of range and wonder what happened or to expect a long ragchew.)

    After a bit, under the next 10-minute mark, I ALWAYS make it a point to announce, "KF4YOR clear".

    Probably not the best terminology to use on HF, but when calling CQ SSB and hear nothing, I ALWAYS say, "KF4YOR clear" as well. Short, sweet, single syllable, and people know precisely what I mean. I also say this after saying our "73's" after a QSO as well -- just to have that "final signoff".

    To me this means I MAY still be monitoring, but don't expect a response.

    **EDIT** -- heh, after re-reading my post, I really sound like one of those people that just HAS to have the last word in. I swear, I'm really not like that!
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
  9. K7JEM

    K7JEM Ham Member QRZ Page

    In reality, that is considered not the best operational procedure. There is no need to use the word "clear" at any time. If you call CQ, or state you are monitoring, it is not necessary, and not in amateur tradition to "clear off".

    The only time you might want to use the word "clear" is at the end of a conversation, so others will know you are through with the party you are talking to. Even then, it's not needed or especially helpful.

    So, please don't do that, and don't encourage others to do that. If you have been monitoring on 2M FM, and the channel is quiet, it just disrupts those that might be monitoring at a distance, especially on a wide coverage repeater.

    Joe
     
  10. KA4AAA

    KA4AAA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Good advice there, Joe! Point taken, and the habit shall change. Thanks again.

    I started doing this years ago after saying 'monitoring' -- I got wrapped up in something else, and 6 or 7 minutes later, someone started calling me, "KF4YOR, are you still monitoring?" and called me about three times. By the time I got to the radio, he was gone.

    That one single event is why I started announcing I was clear.
     
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