Question about license requirements after leaving the Army.

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio License Test Schedules' started by KD0TFL, Sep 16, 2020.

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  1. KG5RZ

    KG5RZ Ham Member QRZ Page


    I resemble that remark.

    BTW, the CB “Elmers” of the 70s had a lot in common with the grumpy old farts of ham radio today. I still remember one in particular, a channel 19 AMer, who told me I was foolish and ignorant and you “ can’t just throw up any old piece of wire and expect it to work” after seeing my finely tuned dipole for use on SSB on the upper channels. I was talking all over the country, fully observing the 150 mile limit of course, while he was content to pester the truck drivers driving the highway by his house.

    Half a century and not much has changed.
     
    K5WY likes this.
  2. W2AI

    W2AI QRZ Lifetime Member #240 Platinum Subscriber Life Member QRZ Page

    It was a time [prior to 1964] when ham and CB licenses were manually processed by file clerks and records kept on index cards.
     
    W5WN likes this.
  3. WZ7U

    WZ7U Ham Member QRZ Page

  4. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    No, it doesn't apply. It's you dumping on CB and claiming that there's some profound observations made on human behavior in the "parable".

    This after you admit ignorance of CB radio.

    What is your premise? That CB radio should never have existed because CB doesn't make "good neighbors"? CB and Amateur radio aren't neighbors. They don't talk to each other, they have their own frequency allocations, use different equipment, and may as well be on different planets.

    How often do people today confuse CB with Amateur radio? In my experience anyone under 40 years or so of age don't even know either exist. They can't confuse one for the other because both are alien to them.

    Sure, why not? Although with GMRS they have their own call signs and licensing so some of my ideas on recruitment for Amateur radio on GMRS will not work.

    It seems you have a very different idea on what Amateur radio is for and why it was created. It says right in the Part 97 rules that Amateur radio exists to create people trained in communications and technical ability. There's also the part about emergency communications and international goodwill. I see this as Amateur radio being a way to train people to help out in communications in whatever means best presents itself. We train ourselves in radio technology so that if someone is in need to fix their GMRS repeater after a storm we can help them get back on the air as quickly as possible. This should not be just about international goodwill but being good neighbors for those on Part 95.

    Analogies on being neighbors does not apply because CB and Amateur radio are not neighbors. Comparisons with licensing for on the road vehicles or aircraft do not apply either. A pilot for a big jumbo jet would have started with a single engine propeller plane. A driver of something with 18 wheels will have started with something that had 4 wheels. A Class A commercial license allows for driving a passenger car as much as a Class D non-commercial license. With radio a GROL grants no authority on Amateur radio frequencies. There's no common training for commercial radio licenses and non-commercial licenses like Amateur radio.

    This is odd to me, and upsetting in a way. Why is it that I can go to a forum for pilots and see people from unlicensed power paraglider pilots to Boeing 747 pilots all talk to each other, share experiences, answer each other's questions, and do so respectfully but with radio Amateur radio forums like this give themselves permission to mock and denigrate those that choose to operate under Part 95? While I'm replying to N2EY here this isn't directed at any one person, this is a phenomenon that I see quite often in Amateur radio. Why is it that "Squeedunk" and "Podunk" can't seem to get along? I believe part of it is because they don't have to.

    That truck driver with the Class A license is going to be nice to those with a Class D non-commercial license because he knows that he will have to deal with them on the road. That Boeing 747 pilot is going to be pleasant with the powered paraglider pilot because he may have got started as a pilot in a similar way. The denizens of "Squeedunk" and "Podunk" might feel like they have permission to dump on each other all they like on web forums because they know that when on the air their paths will never cross.

    Why should people licensed in Part 97 reach out to those in Part 95? Because, as I read the basis and purpose, it is our duty to do so. Our reason to exist is in part to contribute to the art and science of radio communications, not Amateur radio communications but all radio communications. Another part of Amateur radio is to provide communications in an emergency. If Amateur radio operators don't have Part 95 gear, are unfamiliar in their use, then I see that as a failure. As in Cool Hand Luke, we have a failure to communicate.

    N2EY, you propose taking 11 meters away from CB radio because you believe them to be "bad neighbors" even though you admit to never using 11 meters yourself. You believe the FCC should reward good behavior with spectrum. Okay then, put your good behavior on 11 meters for the FCC to see and perhaps they will agree that good behavior should be rewarded with spectrum and Amateur radio will get that band back. But then, as I pointed out before, 11 meters was never taken from Amateur radio. What happened is the rules changed a bit and all a licensed Amateur has to do to use this band is behave themselves.

    Oh, right, you don't want people to confuse CB with Amateur radio. Don't worry about that. I'm quite certain a very large portion of the population has no idea either exist.
     
  5. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Why is there any animosity between these groups? What started this? Was it the FCC carving out 11 meters for CB? That's misguided, the people on CB had nothing to do with that decision, or it's at least highly unlikely. There may be some old timers on CB that was part of this decision decades ago but that's got to be a very very small group.

    As in my previous post there are a great many people that are quite ignorant of CB and Amateur radio. They aren't going to confuse one for the other since they don't know these radios exist. If there is some confusion then so what? I found it amusing when my mom said something about my new "CB" radio. Whatever. The radio was in fact a very nice 2 meter and 70 cm dual band FM HT but if someone wants to think of it as a "CB radio" then I'm not going to get upset about it.

    I see an opportunity to use Part 95, and even Part 15, as "training wheels" for Amateur radio. Let people learn on unlicensed radio and see if this interests them. If so then they can "upgrade" to Amateur radio. If Amateur radio is going to be effective in storm spotting, emergency communications, and growing the pool of trained radio operators and electronics technicians then it needs to be able to incorporate Part 95 equipment, frequencies, and operators into their emergency preparations, storm spotting team, and so on.

    I've long held the idea that it would be nice to see a radio club that was inclusive of all kinds of radio. Storm spotting doesn't need to be done only among licensed Amateurs. Activities like a fox hunt doesn't require an Amateur radio license. I fear though that any such club, online or face-to-face, would quickly become dominated by the licensed Amateurs because too many can't seem to comprehend that Amateur radio is supposed to be about communicating and technical skill, not how many awards you have and how big your license is. It just seems to turn into a license measuring contest.
     
  6. W9JEF

    W9JEF Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    When I passed my Amateur Extra code test in 1957 at the FCC in Chicago, I copied in cursive--the only way I could copy 20 wpm quick enough. For the same reason, I used a ball-point pen, owing to its lower friction than a lead pencil.

    My friend Don, K9BMC(SK) drove us down there from Green Bay in his 1949 Ford, and got stopped for a minor traffic violation. Though he got by with just a warning, he became very agitated, and vowed never to drive in Chicago ever again. (But I digress).

    Don was there to upgrade his Conditional to General. He didn't have to, but just wanted to. And (rightly or not) he was under the impression that he would lose his Conditional if he failed. He was very nervous, and the examiner had a problem reading the copy, so he sat down with Don, and allowed him to clarify; and he did pass.

    73,
    Jim
    . . . . . . . . . EARTH: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
  7. K3XR

    K3XR Ham Member QRZ Page

    I'll give it another try...
    From K3XR post on QRZ.com forum..

    The 11 meter issue is a separate one doubtful any opinions will change regardless here goes......Just finished reading new replies to this thread when listening to a conversation on 2 meters with one station telling the other station he was "giving him 2 pounds" now there's a ham phrase if ever there was one! Seems to me no one would know you were a previous 11 meter operator unless you made it known or unless you conducted your operating in a manner that would remove any doubt.

    It is difficult for some to understand that references to 11 meters by way of phrases operating practices etc are offensive to those who take pride in a disciplined hobby where it's participants mostly comply with the rules and regulations. Yes I know ham radio has it's share of bad operators that does not mean we need more of them.

    If you are a former operator of the 11 meter band and complied with all of the rules and regulations on that band there is every reason to expect you will do the same on the ham bands and you should be welcomed. For example did you limit your communications to 151 miles (recently changed) ? Limit transmissions to 5 minutes with a 1 minute break? Only operated on assigned channels? Operated at the legal power limit? The old and recently changed rules and regs are widely available if you want to take the time to do the research.
     
  8. KG5RZ

    KG5RZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    AC0GT,

    11 meters is dead to amateur radio. “We” might ought to start using our 12 meter band before Uncle Charlie decides we don’t Wenatchee/need it and give to some group that will make use of it. I know, it could be used to expand CB.
     
  9. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    What kind of operating practices? Illegal activity on the radio is certainly going to offend people on any radio service, and as you point out both Part 95 and Part 97 have people that fail to follow all the rules. Is it the use of 10-codes that offend some licensed Amateurs? There's nothing illegal about that as it is not a code used to obscure meaning. What offends me is the use of Q-codes on phone modes. This doesn't obscure meaning either as far as the FCC is concerned but it is rarely, if ever, helpful in clarifying things.

    I had an eye opening experience in my, very brief and far from comprehensive, radio training in basic military training. There's a "code" of sorts for the military when talking on the radio and it does not involve 10-codes, or Q-codes. If one wants to convey that a transmission was received to the other party the proper term is not "10-4", or even "roger" as portrayed in popular entertainment. The proper word to use is "understood".

    I believe that many in Amateur radio could learn a lot from the military on radio communications. They have to take people with no experience with a radio and get them to be effective communicators quickly. They do this by using what is mostly plain English, not some series of codes. I believe that if Amateur radio is going to set a good example on effective communications, and therefore look like something others might want to try, then they should stop using Q-codes on phone.

    I realize my suggestion to not use Q-codes on phone would offend some licensed Amateurs. What I'm pointing out is that the stereotype of Amateur radio operators in some popular entertainment as an odd recluse with quirky behavior is reinforced by hearing them speak in what is gibberish to them.

    If licensed Amateurs think there's bad habits coming in from 11 meters then think about how habits from Amateur radio sound to the CB radio operator. They may sound like an idiot to you but I'm telling everyone that is using Q-codes on phone sounds like idiots to the rest of the world. It's a big turn off and it's not attracting newcomers.

    We should welcome people from 11 meters to Amateur radio, and one way to be welcoming is to communicate effectively and set a good example.
     
  10. W9JEF

    W9JEF Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    When on the 'phone modes, do you say “Calling any amateur radio operator who may be listening”--or do you simply call “CQ” (seek you)? Do you give S-meter readings, or report the signal strength in µV?

    Like it or not. in my memory (as far back as the 1940s), Q-codes, like other traditions from the days when Morse was the only we communicated by radio, have become embedded in the shoptalk of ham radio. Lots of luck in getting that changed. :p

    73,
    Jim . . . . . . . . . EARTH: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT
     
    K3XR likes this.

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