Question about license requirements after leaving the Army.

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio License Test Schedules' started by KD0TFL, Sep 16, 2020.

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  1. W5WN

    W5WN QRZ Lifetime Member #379 Platinum Subscriber Life Member QRZ Page

    Excellent and accurate summary of the history of 11 meters!
    KO4ESA and N2EY like this.
  2. N2EY

    N2EY XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    There's only one way to get 11 meters back, and it ISN'T by using it. 11 isn't an Amateur Radio band, and hasn't been one for 63 years. If amateurs were to use it legally, it would simply convince FCC to leave it alone. If amateurs were to use it illegally, it just makes Amateur Radio look bad.

    The only way to get 11 meters back is by using all the other HF bands, particularly 12 and 10 meters, to the point that they're overcrowded. Then we can say to FCC. "Help! We need more HF spectrum! Nobody is using 11 meters, give it back to us!"

    It's the principle of the thing. FCC took spectrum away from a well-behaved service and created a mess.

    "You don't know what you've got till it's gone"

    Won't work. All that will do is convince FCC to leave 11 meters as a CB band.

    Yes it is. But the entire historical context must be understood. Many if not most don't do that.

    Back then, FCC was very "activist" - much more so than today. They added the Basis and Purpose section to the rules of every radio service because they INSISTED that every service NEEDED such a section. (The B&P of today's Part 97 is word-for-word identical to the 1951 version.) FCC created UHF CB and then 11 meter CB because they were convinced that small businesses NEEDED a land-mobile radio service beyond what was already available. FCC changed the amateur rules in the 1950s and 1960s because they were convinced Amateur Radio NEEDED the changes.

    11 is not an amateur band today. Why should any US amateur use 11 meters when anyone with a General or above has full privileges on 12 and 10 meters?
    KO4ESA likes this.
  3. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    That could work too. We appear to agree that the FCC will do nothing to increased Amateur radio bandwidth if the bandwidth we have is far from full.

    Is it a mess any more? Seems to me that the CB craze is gone and most people use cell phones, mobile apps (on those same phones or on tablets, laptops, smart watches, etc.), business band radio, GMRS/FRS, and so on. There's no mess any more, the band is largely empty.

    Perhaps. Would that be a bad thing? If it gets people using the band, and this includes licensed Amateurs to set a good example, then I'd think this is a recruiting tool to get people interested in Amateur radio.

    Why use 11 meters when there is 10 and 12 meters? Have you been paying attention? It's to demonstrate to the FCC that the Amateur radio community sees this band as valuable spectrum. If Amateur radio operators don't need the bandwidth then why get upset? Oh, right, "the principle of the thing". You just claimed we don't need the band, so what principle was violated?

    If it is a useless, redundant, or generally unneeded band then there is no need to get upset about its loss. If it is a useful band then use it. To show the FCC and other users that you are an Amateur radio operator when on CB channels identify yourself by your Amateur radio callsign. If the FCC sees that the only people using the band are people with Amateur radio callsigns then that can demonstrate that there may be value in returning the band to Amateur radio and loosening up the rules a bit on allowed modes and such.

    One more time, if 11 meters is not worth using then there is no reason to complain about it not being an Amateur radio band. If it is valuable then use it, there's nothing stopping anyone from this. If used enough by licensed Amateur radio operators, to where it is exclusively Amateur radio operators using it, then that is a case to have the band restored to Amateur radio. If it's not worth fighting for then it's not worth complaining about.
  4. K3UJ

    K3UJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Who are you going to talk to? This would also be a domestic only band, no legal DX. A lot of other countries have a CB service using pretty much the same 11M frequencies.
  5. KG5RZ

    KG5RZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    I got in the truck at 6am this morning to start the morning commute. Put the CB on scan and heard stations from all over the eastern half of the country coming in on at least 6 channels. So I start turning the dial of the FT-857 from 28.3 to 28.5 and had the FT-8900 scanning the 10M FM channels. Made a few calls on 28.4 and 29.6 with no responses. Did manage to talk to several folks on 38LSB. I guess my 10M junk needs work.
    KO4ESA likes this.
  6. N5AF

    N5AF Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    ^^^^^ This!

    There's probably nothing wrong with your 10m setup.

    I see the same thing. All. The. Time. 11 meters looks like a spike-haired punk rocker from the 80's on the SDR waterfall, and 12 and 10 are flatlined like the deceased. I'm seriously considering adding either a Uniden 980 or President McKinley 11m SSB rig to shack.

    When this happens, I do the same thing, roll over to 10m or 12m and start calling. So far, I have yet to make a phone contact on either band.

    On FT8..yes. <sigh>

    I originally came into the hobby on the upswing of Cycle 21, so I have fond memories of how good 10m can be under the right conditions.
    KO4ESA likes this.
  7. ND6M

    ND6M Ham Member QRZ Page

    Amateurs never "owned" 11 meters, they were secondary users.
    N2EY likes this.
  8. KG5RZ

    KG5RZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    I have a Cobra 148GTX. Main gripe, no scan. Good performer, unfortunately no longer made.
    In the truck is a 980SSB. Works well, has scan. Bad thing they are known for display issues. Mine has the two far right side vertical segments out.
    I'll skip the antique Sears Roadtalker 40 I found in a junk box at a ham fest for now.
    Were I in the market for another now it would be the McKinley. The front facing speaker is a plus.
  9. N2EY

    N2EY XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    So the FIRST thing to do is to use the spectrum we already have.

    I don't know, I don't use 11 meters. Never had a reason to.



    The way to get people interested in Amateur Radio is to show them Amateur Radio, not some other service. Should amateurs use FRS/GMRS as a way to get people interested in Amateur Radio?

    One of the BIG problems Amateur Radio has had for more than 50 years is being confused with cb. We don't need more of that!

    Why, yes, I have. You haven't made your case.

    Which won't work unless 10 and 12 meters are fully utilized FIRST.

    The principle of good behavior being rewarded.

    False dichotomy and a bad idea. Until 12 and 10 meters are jammed with amateurs around the clock, what you propose is actually counterproductive.

    This is an old story, but it applies:

    A Parable

    Imagine a city of neighborhoods. Call it Fredonia.

    The neighborhoods in Fredonia are many and varied, and their character is enforced by zoning and other ordinances. Some are industrial, some are commercial, some are residential, etc. Each has its own purpose and its own rules.

    In this city there was a residential neighborhood with a long, proud history and a distinct culture. Call it Podunk.

    The folks in Podunk followed the rules closely and behaved in neighborly ways. There were a lot of rules and traditions in Podunk, but they made life there pleasant and safe. Some folks might consider Podunkers old-fashioned, but they valued education, order, courtesy, and responsibility above trendiness. Sure, there are a few who pushed the rules a bit, but the rest of Podunk, and the Fredonia City Council, kept them in line.

    The quality of life in Podunk meant house prices and taxes were relatively high. Podunkers didn't mind, though; they liked having clean, safe streets, good schools and a close-knit community. They enjoyed a lot of freedom because they took care of many things themselves, Podunker to Podunker. They were willing to pay the price and meet the high standards Podunk required.

    Then some folks on the Fredonia City Council decided to create a new neighborhood. Nobody really asked for it, but the Fredonia City Council was very activist at the time and did it anyway.

    They sliced off a piece of Podunk that wasn't heavily developed or used, and renamed it Squeedunk. And they made a set of rules for Squeedunk - rules that were very, very different from Podunk's. In some ways the Squeedunk rules were much less restrictive, in others they were more restrictive, but in any case they were very different.

    Squeedunk grew quickly, and in the beginning was pretty well-behaved. But it wasn't long before it became quite an overcrowded, wild place, where most of its few rules were pretty much ignored.

    Podunkers weren't too pleased with this, being right next door, but figured it was a matter of live and let live. What Squeedunkers did in their neighborhood was their business, right?

    Except that after a while the Squeedunk culture began to encroach on Podunk. The Fredonia City Council was overwhelmed with complaints and problems from Squeedunk. Not only did they lose control of Squeedunk, they all but stopped enforcing the rules in Podunk too. They had never imagined that a neighborhood would simply ignore their rules, but that's what happened. And they did not have the resources to enforce the rules, nor would they admit they'd been wrong to create Squeedunk in the first place.

    Some Squeedunkers moved to Podunk and became good neighbors - usually because they grew tired of the noise and problems. But some Squeedunkers brought the Squeedunk culture with them, and sought to change Podunk's rules to suit themselves. A few succeeded in various ways.

    Worse, folks from outside the area began to confuse the two neighborhoods. A long-time Podunk resident, travelling to another neighborhood, would be addressed as if he were from Squeedunk. Graduates of Podunk High discovered that their diplomas didn't mean as much as they used to, because college admission officials and employers confused them with kids from Squeedunk High - a school with much lower standards.

    Problems in adjoining neighborhoods that were caused by Squeedunkers would be blamed on Podunk in the media - and somehow the retractions would never get as much attention as the headline stories that were mistakes. City-wide restrictions aimed at controlling Squeedunk were enacted by the Fredonia City Council, but their biggest effect was on Podunk - because the Squeedunkers just ignored the restrictions.

    Years went by without a resolution. Eventually Squeedunk's growth stopped, and the place actually began to lose population. The problems remained, though not as bad as before. The Fredonia City Council didn't do all that much to deal with them because budget cuts and growth in other parts of the city stretched their resources to the limit. Often Podunkers felt abandoned by the Fredonia City Council, who had formerly taken an active interest in keeping Podunk in order. And since Podunk was only a small part of the City of Fredonia, Podunkers' influence on the Fredonia City Council was very limited. The Council was much more concerned with the industrial and commercial areas of Fredonia.

    Podunk was still a great place to live, but many Podunkers remembered how it was before Squeedunk came to be, and knew what had been lost. The Fredonia City Council, being politicians, would never, ever admit that their creation of Squeedunk had been a mistake. Nor would they take strong action to change things.

    Given all that - would you expect Podunkers to feel all warm and fuzzy about Squeedunk? Would you expect them to embrace aspects of the Squeedunk culture? Would you expect them to move to Squeedunk?

    Or would you expect Podunkers to be a bit standoffish and protective of Podunk and its culture, traditions, and ways? And to reject the Squeedunk culture? And to say "That's NOT how we do it in Podunk?" And to still remember and resent the creation of Squeedunk by the Fredonia City Council?

  10. N5AF

    N5AF Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Absolutely. See my post #46. It's depressing.

    FRS/GMRS, no. 11m is an entirely different beast.

    Here's another take on 11m. Let's call it outreach. Amateur radio needs all the outreach it can get these days.

    In my area there is a "ragchew" group of CB operators and a few amateurs on 27.395 MHz LSB. I monitor them occasionally. My old SWL habits die hard. ;)

    One of the amateurs who chats with these fellows is always encouraging the CB guys to get licensed. Two weeks ago, one of those "CB" guys showed up at our Saturday club breakfast and asked about taking his Tech exam. Our VE group set up a test session just for this individual. He passed his Tech. I heard him later on 27.395 MHz going on and on about all the new things he would be able to do as a licensed amateur. He was very excited. Passing his Tech exam motivated him to start studying for his General.

    I'm sure there are lot of 11m guys out there who would would get licensed and contribute to the hobby. Many of the CB folk have a dim view of hams, much like many hams have a dim view of CB operators. These are people who already have an interest in radio. We should take advantage of this and encourage them to get licensed.

    In my own circle of ham friends, I know at least six of them started out on 11m in the 70's. All were licensed in the 80's and are still active operators.
    KO4ESA likes this.

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