ad: M2Ant-1

QSK or FULL-BK

Discussion in 'Straight Keys - CW Enthusiasts' started by DD5RK, Feb 22, 2021 at 1:40 PM.

Tags:
ad: L-HROutlet
ad: l-rl
ad: Left-2
ad: Subscribe
ad: Left-3
ad: abrind-2
ad: QSOToday-1
ad: L-MFJ
  1. DD5RK

    DD5RK Ham Member QRZ Page

    Hi,

    Do you use QSK or FULL-BK?

    If yes, how do you use it, what is the correct procedure?

    Is it mandatory for a SW-Transceiver?

    73
    Rüdiger
    DD5RK
     
  2. W7HV

    W7HV Ham Member QRZ Page

    QSK means that you are operating such that the receiver isn't shut off the entire time of your over, so that the other op has a chance to interrupt you, or "break-in". This is usually broken down into full break-in and semi-break in. In full break-in, the turn around time between rx and tx is minimized such that you can hear between cw character elements (dits). Some rigs are very fast at switching and some not so fast. The speed of cw before you can no longer hear between dits and dahs depends on how fast the particular rig can switch between rx and tx. On the faster rigs you may hear between dits up to 40 or more wpm. On others, maybe only 20 wpm. When you reach the limit, you'll only hear between characters, or between words.

    Many rigs use electromechanical relays to perform the switching and the speed of these becomes their fundamental limit. A few rigs use electronic switching (often identified as PIN diodes) and these can be faster. In most rigs that use relays, you can hear them clicking. Some rigs are much louder than others and some ops find this noise objectionable.

    In semi-break in, a delay is intentionally added to the rx/tx turn around time. It's generally adjustable from milliseconds to several seconds and can be set so that at a given cw speed (or small range of speeds), the turn around only occurs between characters, or only between words, or only between even longer delays. This greatly reduces relay clacking.

    Many CW ops like to hear as much as possible when sending, almost like the receiver never shuts off. Of course it must shut off during TX, so radios with very fast turn around times are desirable. On radios with really fast turn-around times, it does sound like the receiver never shuts off. Personally, I prefer this, but I'm OK if I can't hear between elements at speeds of 20wpm and above, as long as I can still here between characters up to 35 or so wpm.

    One more thing. In some radios, you can hear tx/rx turnaround artifacts in the audio. These might sound light little high pitched clicks or thumps or something. This is of course less than ideal. Sometimes these are very minor, or might depend on other settings, like the RX filter width. If they are bothersome, switching to semi-break-in with a suitable delay can help make them less bothersome, as it can do with audible relay clicking.
     
    WS4K, N5CM, AG5CK and 4 others like this.
  3. K1LKP

    K1LKP Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    HI Rüdiger

    LET ME START OFF BY LETTING YOU KNOW THAT W7HV HAS PROVIDE YOU WITH

    TOP NOTCH FEEDBACK.



    Do you use QSK or FULL-BK?

    I DO NOT USE QSK BECAUSE MY RIG SOUNDS LIKE A MEAT GRINDER ONCE YOU GO OVER 25 WPM.



    If yes, how do you use it, what is the correct procedure?

    AGAIN, I DO NOT USE QSK - FULL BREAK-IN BUT I DO KNOW YOU HAVE TO BE
    VERY ATTENTIVE AT ALL TIMES.

    YOU SHOLD LET THE OTHER OPERATOR KNOW THAT YOU
    ARE USING QSK.

    SOME OPERATORS DO NOT ENJOY USING QSK SO DON'T BE
    SURPRISED IF THEY DECIDE TO END THE QSO.



    YOU HAVE TO GET INTO THE HABBIT OF HAVING YOUR HANDS ON THE PADDLES / BUG / KEYER
    AT ALL TIMES. THIS DEPENDS UPON HOW FAST THE BOTH OF YOU ARE SENDING.

    IF YOU ARE IN CRUISE CONTROL NO PROBLEM BUT IF YOU ARE AT QRQ SPEEDS YOU MUST
    BE QUICK TO RESPOND.

    IT DOES TAKE SOME PRACTICE TO GET THE HANG OF FULL- BREAK IN QSK OPERATION.

    IN THE LONG RUN IT'S WORTH IT BECZ ITS A LOT OF FUN.


    Is it mandatory for a SW-Transceiver?

    I DON'T OWN A SW-TRANSCEIVER (SDR), SO HOPEFULLY SOME OF THESE FOLKS WILL PROVIDE
    YOU WITH THE PROPER INFO.

    HAVE FUN AND ENJOY THE WONDERFUL FUN FILLED WORLD OF CW.

    ARRL HEADER   CW 4  EVER.jpg




    73 - K1LKP
     
    W5BIB, WA1GXC and DD5RK like this.
  4. K3XR

    K3XR Ham Member QRZ Page

    The choice is up to you. With few exceptions, I do not care for break-in on CW or VOX on phone. I find listening to the receiver while transmitting very annoying. Mostly switch T/R with a switch on the rig or an external switch.
     
    DD5RK likes this.
  5. KD2RDG

    KD2RDG Ham Member QRZ Page

    Semi break-in with the delay time adjusted up to 1 second. The relay clacking and intermittent receiver noise is too distracting otherwise.
     
    W9RAC, WB5YUZ, WD4ELG and 4 others like this.
  6. AA4OO

    AA4OO XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    My Ten-Tec Century/21 and Elecraft KX3 employ pin-diodes for silent QSK switching. The TT Eagle has a relay but it's not objectionable. My HW-101 has an adjustable delay on the big relay that seems to disengage at the worst possible time and it's a noisy clack. I don't use QSK on the HW-101.

    My 1955 GRC-9 ex-military transmitter/receiver is full QSK with a pretty noisy relay. No need for sidetone with that clacker hammering away. Kinda like using a telegraph sounder while sending.

    I enjoy QSK and some operators I work are very much back and forth style ops, inserting breaks and questions before an over. QSK does take getting used to, not just the interruptions from other ops but hearing band noise between your DITS and DAHS.
     
    DD5RK likes this.
  7. N5HXR

    N5HXR Ham Member QRZ Page

    I'm a total newb, but I can't stand the clicking. I can't imagine getting used to it... your post encourages me that I might not ever have to.
     
    WA1GXC, DD5RK, KD2RDG and 1 other person like this.
  8. NK8I

    NK8I XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I don't like the switching sound when I am sending too slow to beat the delay I have the rig set at, so not using QSK with my current rigs (991A, 450D)

    Also noticed that working more experienced OPs, they come back to you lightning fast, wish they would pause a second or two. Mercy. :eek: :D

    Question on QSK, I always wondered if engaging the switching on full break in could eventually be harmful to the radio?
     
    WA1GXC, DD5RK and KD2RDG like this.
  9. K1LKP

    K1LKP Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Rüdiger,

    HERE IS SOME GREAT READING ON THE SUBJECT MATTER.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QSK_operation_(full_break-in)

    73 - K1LKP


     
    DD5RK likes this.
  10. K1LKP

    K1LKP Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page


    TOM, IT DEPENDS UPON THE TECHNOLOGY THAT IS USED FOR THE FULL BREAK-IN SWITCHING.

    JUST ABOVE IN POST # 6 - AA4OO MENTIONED THE USE OF PIN DIODE TECHNOLOGY.

    ENJOY THE WONDEFUL FUN FILLED WORLD OF CW AND DON'T FORGET TO FEED BLUE.

    73 - K1LKP

     
    DD5RK and NK8I like this.

Share This Page