QRZ Criticized Over Refusal to List K1MAN

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by AA7BQ, Nov 3, 2004.

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QRZ Criticized Over Refusal to List K1MAN - Give us your opinion

  1. Yes, I support QRZ's decision to de-list K1MAN

    100.0%
  2. No, QRZ should list K1MAN and his viewpoints

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. K7JAZ

    K7JAZ Guest

    I would see nothing wrong with listing Baxter in the lookup and denying him a bio page or any other way to present his propaganda, but Fred probably has his reasons for not doing it that way.
     
  2. W7BBC

    W7BBC Ham Member QRZ Page

    Funny, I thought this thread was about QRZ banning Baxter from their WEB site. No one is preempting anyones ability/right to listen to or read Baxters blather. Just tune in on 14.275 or go to his WEB site and you can listen or read as much as you want. You just can't do it here, which is entirely QRZ's option and right.

    Bill / W7BBC
     
  3. W0GI

    W0GI Ham Member QRZ Page

    WA7VTD,

    I could see some of your points, if this was a media outlet.

    This is not a newspaper, TV/Radio Station, or a network.

    This is a private website.

    Beyond that, why in the world are you worried about K1MAN's free speech? All he does is speak.

    He has a website, and broadcasts on HF almost 24x7.

    You can call this censorship, but to me it is the right of a webmaster to control the content of his site, which is his personal property. Taking this on another angle, it seems that your argument may well infringe on Fred's right to have the freedom to control his personal property.

    I didn't see any pro Kerry stuff on gwbush.com or pro Bush stuff on johnkerry.com. Was that censorship?

    Sorry, but I just don't get how you compare a private website to free speech issues.

    Private citizens are not obliged to allow anyone to use their Property to spew their points of view.

    You are telling me that someone at a legal protest, has to give equal time to anyone that demands use of their bullhorn? That if I put a political sign on my yard, then everyone else can put their signs on my yard?

    Your bio says that you are an Attorney emphasizing constitutional law and criminal defense.

    I am a bit suprised as to your interpretation as to an owner's right to their private property.

    While I believe that freedom of speech is a great thing, my rights to my personal property are also protected by the Constitution, as are Fred's rights to his personal property.

    Seems simple to me.

    73, W6NJ
     
  4. K7JAZ

    K7JAZ Guest

    EXACTLY, and that's what so many "rights" attorneys can't seem to understand.  I won't put down attorneys, I have some very good friends who are attorneys, but some are so busy "protecting" the rights of a few, until none of us have any right over our own lives.  A law degree and legalbabble vocabulary don't guarantee they have all the answers.
     
  5. WA7VTD

    WA7VTD Ham Member QRZ Page

    NJ:

    Thanks for the response.

    I believe you misread me; probably my fault. I would of course never infringe upon the right of someone to control his/her property or forum.

    The question I raise is not whether banning Baxter is lawful or within the rights of the web site owners/administrators, but rather whether doing so is desirable. On that issue, you and I respectfully disagree, each offering cogent points, which is why this is a "forum."

    AJ:

    Forget the "political BS" as you call it, in my first post; you have not addressed the points in my second post, responding to you.

    "Your team," if you are aware of your country's history, is the faction that believed that allowing all to publish freely on any matter whatsoever, was a dangerous concept beyond the ability of the common person to rationally analyze.

    I find it quite unfortunate that you now compare me to Baxter, for simply propounding my own unpopular opinion, i.e., that squelching a person's speech is counterproductive. For that, you ascribe the moniker "Archie Bunker" to me, and suggest that I would deem you a "Nazi!" It would appear that (aside from having your ideologies grossly confused in your metpahor), if anyone were emulating K1MAN now, it would be you, sir! Perhaps you ought to lobby the administrator to ban me from the forum, because I do not pass your "test" for what is an "acceptable idea" (which by the way, you still have not been able to articulate).

    May I submit that your test is this: "If it is the opinion of a small minority, it lacks the standing to be heard."

    As I alluded to previously, this is just fine for you as long as you are not in the small minority yourself. Were that to occur, you would be screaming that those squelching you were a bunch of "Archie Bunkers."

    I have merely presented my own personal, cogent opinion. The overwhelming majority of those responding to the poll disagree with me. That is fine!

    I shall lose no sleep over Baxter. I shall scratch my head over the personal attacks this generated from AJ, but only for three seconds.

    As for the position that K1MAN ought still be listed in the database lookup, I checked, and he is. I find that to be a quite honorable policy on the part of the administrators. Doing otherwise would, I submit, be cause for gentle lobbying of them to reconsider. As it stands, Baxter has not been "erased" from virtual existence (not that doing so would erase him from actual existence).

    More time devoted to this subject generally, or to continuing a battle of wits with one thusly unarmed person specifically, I shall not expend.

    I appreciate everyone's thoughts; I certainly did not expect replies in support of my position, given that I am apparently among slightly more that 4% feeling as I do.

    Enjoy the lowbands...73,

    VTD [​IMG]
     
  6. WA7VTD

    WA7VTD Ham Member QRZ Page

    My error...I meant to refer to "AZ," not "AJ."
     
  7. KB1GYQ

    KB1GYQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Ok, AA7BQ, given that you pulled him and 95% agreed with that decision, we are waiting with baited breath for your post explaining his re-listing...

    WA7VTD: Perhaps he only exists as a figment of his own imagination. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  8. KD7WHQ

    KD7WHQ QRZ Member QRZ Page

    Would that we could erase him from existance, as far as on the air anyway.
    Ok, Baxter, do I make your lame list now? ;) lol
     
  9. K7JAZ

    K7JAZ Guest

    I didn't address the rest of your "points" because  I really have just too many other things to do that are more important.

    I'm an American citizen, as you are, and any "faction that believed that allowing all to publish freely on any matter whatsoever, was a dangerous concept beyond the ability of the common person to rationally analyze"  certainly were/are NOT MY team.  That's why I compared you to Baxter, he called us nazi's, in other words lumping us in with a group that would censure everyone's every move, you are making the same unfair accusation.

    Don't try to put words in my mouth.  If I believed you should be censured for having a different opinion, I would say so MYSELF.  Have I?  

    I agree with W6NJ.  Tempers get out of hand.  So have mine.  It seems it doesn't really even matter anymore now, anyway.

    As to the subject of K1MAN's re-listing...

    Well, that's a great joke on us, isn't it?  After all this haggling, getting listed as nazis, etc.! [​IMG]

    My guess is as several have suggested, that Fred may have decided to list him in the interest of completeness, but will probably not allow a bio page.....that's just my guess.....Fred will likely explain sooner or later....
     
  10. W0GI

    W0GI Ham Member QRZ Page

    WA7VTD,

    Thanks for clearing that part up.

    Looking at it from the "is it desirable" aspect, I would have to say, that to be fair, I would really need more information.

    Looking at some of the writings from K1MAN, I can only assume that there were cases of abusive behaviour.  

    That said, I know that tempers get a bit high at times on some of these issues, and many of us tend to let emotion take over when we should be more polite.  I know that I have typed responses, that I have deleted after reading it without my blood pressure boiling.  My points may have been ok, but I sure wasn't being very polite.

    Some folks though, just seem to be nasty SOB's.  Stuff that goes beyond a hot head.

    Looking at the "nazi" stuff, I personaly lean to the side of Fred on this.  There may be posts that were never allowed, that would tell us more as to why K1MAN was cutoff.

    I do see your point, and beyond the original question of "can Fred cut him off", there is the question of why?

    It may be nessasary to have some trust in Fred's judgement.  I can only say that from reading K1MAN's response to this, and the stuff on F%&KQRZ.COM, I don't see any reason to doubt Fred's decision.

    The nasty banter I read on those sites, does not sway me one bit to the other side. Just like any Judge will not allow nasty garbage in the court, a moderator has the same responsibility.  

    Once the name calling and insults start, it gets out of hand.

    We may never know that whole story, so your point is well taken.

    Reading how we all go at each other sometimes, I do believe, that you most likely need to get pretty far out of line, to get knocked off of QRZ.

    If you ever look at Eham, you can see what happens when anything goes.

    Sometimes, you can't even find the serious posts, as there is nothing but tons of nasty name calling garbage to wade through.

    73,  W6NJ
     
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