QRP priviledge?

I've been on different portable operation since 1999 and I can enjoy a good pile up.  Everybody should experience the trill of trying to manage all those calls.  I've learned to work split, by numbers, by asking "outside north america only" ect ect.I will pick up stations that send their last two letters but I prefer when everybody uses their full call sign.

There is a practice though that I don't agree with.  It takes a lot of perseverance to work DXCC, counties or islands with just a few watts.  Signing "QRP" in a day to day operation is ok but in a pile up, for me,  it's different.  If you think that I will understand "QRP" I should then be able to copy your call sign or part of it!?!  
I don't feel that QRP stations should have special privilege over anybody because of their decision to transmit low power.  The challenge is to be heard using a few watts & not being picked up because you sign  /QRP or you keep repeating "QRP station".  It's defeating the purpose!  Tell me that you are QRP after I've picked you up and my admiration will increase.  But please don't ask for special treatment.  And let's face it, some stations use /QRP and their power is closer to 100 watts!  

So if you read this and are an avid QRP'er please don't take offence, try to understand my point of view.  My objective is to be fair.  I even try not to say "who is the YL" if I did'nt copy part of the call sign of that person.
Starting this year I will politely refuse to pick up stations using "QRP" to attract my attention and I will have a special announcement  to ask them just to send their call sign because I can hear them.


Best 73 to all
                              Oki (Gilles) VE2MAM

 

So you refuse to work stations that sign /QRP, but you do work stations that don't identify legally (by using last two)?  

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So you refuse to work stations that sign /QRP, but you do work stations that don't identify legally (by using last two)?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Is that really illegal?  I think the FCC only requires full ID once every 10 minutes or at least once during a QSO, whichever comes first.
I do agree everyone should be on an "even" playing field.  I also think it's kind of rude to repeat your callsign (or part of it) over and over until you're sure you've been first and last in the pileup, stepping on everyone else.

 

Yes, if the dx station could hear the "QRP", they could have heard the call. The reason the "QRP", "Mobile", etc. stands out is because of the timing. The group is done with the first flurry of calling, and in the brief lull the "QRP" stands out. But, the call would also have stood out. A good technique for any DXer to try.



Of course, this is not the continuous calling which is widely practiced today. Its just good timing. If one finds that when he stops transmitting the Dx has always already went back to someone, or is in the middle of a qso, then the timing needs help.


That is one advantage to working by numbers: as you work the pile down from one area you also get the smaller stations near the end until there is no one left you can copy from that area. The challenge is getting those not in the area requested to stand by, and getting folks to stand by when they are not the station identified.


At times you have to ask for the specific station four or five times before those who have calls not even close finally shut up and let you work the guy. Just plain rude, and a waste of everyones time. Makes less of a chance for a contact, including for the continuos caller himself. When someone does this they can be sure they will not be the next one worked, or anytime soon, even if they are the strongest.



The last 2 thing is so ingrained I doubt it could ever be stopped. Even though it is illegal and wastes time. If a station is strong then the DX could often get the whole call just as well as last 2. Many times it goes like this: "two Bravo", "two Bravo- 59", "You're 59 also, thanks", "two Bravo, I need the rest of your call!", "Oh, its-" What a waste of time, 4 qsos could have been made in the time of 1.


Yes, no one should expect special treatment in the pileup. Stations should Just sign call and forget "QRP", "Asia", "South America", or whatever. If you can't get through with your call, then chances are that stuff won't work either. 73

 

Is iding with "last 2" illegal. If a US station calls in a pileup using "last 2" for longer than 10 minutes, they have violated FCC regs. If they call using "last 2" on a net, and they do not get on the list, hence never give their full assigned call, they have have violated FCC regs. Why not use full calls? 73

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc8pmm @ Aug. 13 2002,11:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So you refuse to work stations that sign /QRP, but you do work stations that don't identify legally (by using last two)?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Is that really illegal?  I think the FCC only requires full ID once every 10 minutes or at least once during a QSO, whichever comes first.
I do agree everyone should be on an "even" playing field.  I also think it's kind of rude to repeat your callsign (or part of it) over and over until you're sure you've been first and last in the pileup, stepping on everyone else.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It is most definitely illegal. I am required to ID at the beginning and end of a QSO, as well as every 30 minutes (it's 30 minutes in Canada, not 10).

Now if I'm calling in a pileup, I'm not yet in a QSO - I should be using my full callsign on each call.

If I never do get a contact with the station working the pileup, I'll won't have legally identified at all.

Using last two also wastes time as it requires an extra exchange to get the full callsign.

 

My comments are based on the US rules.  Other parts of the world will have different rules.  Where I am at using the last two letters when giving a call IS illegal; well sort of.  The rule is you must give your call every ten minutes and at the end of every QSO.  Thus if you make a call to someone and they don't respond to you, your QSO is over.  If you only signed using the last two letters of your call, then you did not give your full call and have not properly identified your station.  So if you do not ID within ten minutes with your full call, then you are operating incorrectly.  

But what is wrong with using a suffix?  Suffixes such as  /QRP /Mobile /Airborne or any other designator shows your station is operating in a unique fashion.  It does not mean someone deserves better treatment when they use a suffix, but it does mean they are operating in a "non-standard" manner.  Such as "CQ Contest" explains you are part of the contest.

Tangent One

VE2MAM brings up a good point, though.  If you are using 100 watts this not QRP in his eyes.  I bet a number "legal limit" stations think this is low power.  But where does QRP begin?  If I am at 25 watts, is this QRP? How about  50, 75, 100?  Or how about "tuna can" CW stations using 50 mW?  Is a stock HR2510 (or similar) a QRP rig?  Comparing it to a 50mW station it is a powerhouse.  But to a 1500 watt station the HR2510 is not even powerful enough to drive the amp to its legal limit!

Tangent Two

One thing that DOES drive me nuts is the non-standard phonetics.  For example, in an earlier posting a phonetic "whiskey five itchy underwear" was used during field day.  This is poor practice.  Yes it may be catchy during field day or contests but it should not be used.  Variations such as FOX instead of FOXTROT or ZED instead of ZULU are acceptable but Itchy Underwear?

Tangent Three

WV2B you make a good point about the 59 reports.  I make as honest a report as I can.  I do not care when a station comes back to me with a 3 by 5 report.  They can hear me just fine (they never say "say again") and we can enjoy a QSO.  I think that is pretty good for me, considering I am running less than 25 watts into a long wire inside my house.  But just give a report like 3 by 5 to a powerhouse station and see what happens.  In many cases the signal goes up, antennas get moved, all in an effort to get a 59 signal.  It seems that giving anything less than a 4 by 8 is an insult.  It does not matter that I can hear them good enough to have a QSO, they must have the 59 report or "something's wrong."

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wv2b @ Aug. 13 2002,12:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is iding with "last 2" illegal. If a US station calls in a pileup using "last 2" for longer than 10 minutes, they have violated FCC regs. If they call using "last 2" on a net, and they do not get on the list, hence never give their full assigned call, they have have violated FCC regs. Why not use full calls? 73[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It has been made quite clear that the legal ID is the ID shown on your printed amateur radio license.  It isn't HTW or TW or Big Buddy, or even, for me, Whiskey Five Hard To Win.  So making calls using the last 2 is OK, provided at some point you are able to give your legal ID, as shown on your license.  But the problem lies as noted in the quote - if you try to call a DX station several times, using your "last two," and he never responds to you, you have not given your full call sign, and therefore have not legally ID'ed.  Actually the same thing applies on CW where you might send QRL? and no call sign.  Then, if someone comes back and says "yes" you don't respond but you QSY.  That means you failed to ID!  It's kinda sticky, but under the letter of the law, that's the way it is.

Several voice nets are now refusing to accept people into the net unless they identify legally.   I agree - my call sign is printed clearly on my license.  I have been involved in other areas of radio where legal IDs are required (all radios licensed by the FCC, including broadcast stations.)   Standard phonetics are fine, but Whopper Five Haven't Tried Working is not standard, and some Japanese or Korean operator is going to throw the power switch and decide he doesn't have any idea who I am.   And remember, Part 97 says standard phonetics may be used to clarify call signs, but it does not say "in lieu of" legal call signs.  

Now, to QRP.  QRP is a lot of fun, but you know what?  The real skill is not on the shoulders of the QRP operator, but the operator at the other end, who has to really strain to hear your signal.  I enjoy cranking down the rig to 5 watts (as low as it will go) and having fun.  But again, with nets, when a QRP station attempts to check into a net in progress, it is highly inconsiderate, as the net has to bog down and try to pull this weak signal out of the noise, often using several stations as relays.  This disrupts net operations, and this is especially important on traffic nets, or nets that are involved in regular monitoring for emergencies, such as the Maritime Mobile Service net or the Pacific Seafarer's Net.  These nets will assume such a weak signal is a shipboard signal and they will make great effort to find out who the station is, often to learn it is just a QRP station seeking a signal report.  

Have fun with QRP.  It IS fun.  Please, though, increase power to a reasonable level before checking into regular nets.   There are some nets which actually enjoy working with QRP stations, and this doesn't apply to them.  But busy traffic nets are not the place for it.

Have fun.  I get on 40 CW QRP now and then and maybe I'll see ya there

73
Ed

 

Life is too short for QRP.  Never understood the attraction with it.

What every QRP enthusiast should remember however is this: QRP can work very often under the right conditions and modes.  For instance, PSK31 and CW.  But, on our crowded bands and jumping on SSB DX pileups, the only reason they are being heard is because of a patient operator on the receiving end and also because the operator has good ears.  Otherwise QRP would just be so much low level interference.  Anything less than 5 watts should be classified as an un-intentional radiator by the FCC or put in the same class as the squeak of a rusty gate.  IMHO

K2WH

 

Hi to all!
   Just a few comments.
   N9KPN brought up a good point about signal reports.  I, too have made the "mistake" of giving honest reports.  
   I volunteer as an operator at W6RO (the club station aboard the Queen Mary in Long Beach, CA) and recently was working on a Saturday during one of the contests, just handing out points.  I gave a station a 5x5 signal report, because, quite honestly, that was probably even being generous.  The signal was perfectly readable, but weak from my location.  The receiving station curtly informed me that "You never give a report other than 5x9 in a contest" and left without finishing the QSO.  HMMM.  I guess I won't bother answering CQ's during contests anymore.
   Also, a comment about phonetics.  The use of phonetics for ID is obviously a matter of personal interpretation of the rules.  ( I doubt anyone has ever received a violation notice because they ID'd solely by phonetics.)  I try to use both phonetics and "WA9SVD."  The purpose of phonetics is to make the call recognizable and understandable.  So "ITCHY UNDERWARE" may be OK for a local contact, where the operator will understand; a "Standard" phonetics list isn't ALWAYS necessary.  But of course, when it comes to international contacts, it's best to stick to one of the standard phonetic lists.  (And WHICH one is standard?  There are more than one; which ever works is the one to use.)
73,
de Wren Are 9 Seller Voila Djinnee  (WA9SVD)

 

When you're in the driver's seat, you set the rules! I only ask two things of you when you do: (1) When set, please stick with it.  (2) When you work split, please do not spread it out all over the band!  A split of less than 5 KHz would be appreciated.  On WARC bands in particular, two DX stations can take the entire band with splits of 5-10 KHz, often overlapping each other and creating nothing but a mess.

Ya know, I can remember often hearing (in the 60's that is) a good operator on a DXpedition calling an offending station just to tell them that there would be no qso logged with them due to lack of manners.  Now there's an proceedure that would quiet down the pack in a hurry!


As for all you W/VE guys, if you know the rules, then play by them.  But why do you keep bringing up the FCC like it controlled the world?  FCC/DOC rules only apply to their own countries, not the world.  And when a VE or US station is portable outside their home country, they are subject to the rules of the host nation.  Gee, mabye I should start telling all the JA's I work on 30 Meters that they can't run their 400 watt stations because the FCC says it's a 200 watt limit on the band....

Common guys, it's supposed to be fun!  There will be another chance to work that "rare" one, it's not life or death!  Act like gentlemen and ladies.....it does make it easier for everyone, and mabye you'll even put the enjoyment back in the game........

My comments are my thoughts, and I'm sure a lot of you will disagree.  But you know what, it's a great HOBBY, and a lot of FUN.....so I really don't care too much if you don't agree.  I'm in it for the enjoyment, across the world, or across town....it's all DX to me!!

73 to all....

Jim/K7UNZ

 

I operate QRP almost exclusively. My rig is a Yaesu FT-817 that my brother in law lent to me. My antenna is a homebrew 2 element wire yagi (also modest). While I plan to purchase a 100-200 watt rig in the next year or so, it is not in my current budget to do so.

At this point I have 120 countries worked and 105 confirmed. Going forward, pileups are going to be a big part of my DXCC chase. I admit that I am pretty aggressive in the pileups. Please accept my apologies if my 5 watt signal causes QRM .

I do sign /QRP most of the time and find that alot of ops will let the DX station know that a QRP station is calling. I appreciate the help. I check into the ANZA DX net on a regular basis (14,180 at 0520Z). The group is very friendly and accomodating to me. I think they get a kick out of the contacts that I make. If you want to meet some of the nicest people in ham radio, check out this net.

 

I just got done looking on a web site that lists Frequencies in each band specially set a side for QRP operation. My guess would be that if a QRP station wondered else where, beyond those assigned freqs, he/she would be fair game. And if a stronger station is whacking your signal because nobody hears what you're saying...oh well, that's life...better flip the switch.

 

k2wh sums it up rather well.....look, if band conditions are such that you answer my cq with 1 watt and produce the same signal as a 50-100 watt station ....i have no problem working you ...however....crowded band, qrn etc. you are just adding to the garbage on the band and giving me a migraine.....and don't give me this crap about improving your skills etc...by copying qrp....................on the subject of the last 2 letters of the call ....that is not nearly as bad as the net on 40 mtr ssb that has members sign in with their net member number in lieu of their calls...where is the oo, fcc, on this one
dan k3xr

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n9kpn @ Aug. 13 2002,16:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
> My comments are based on the US rules. Other parts of the
> world will have different rules.

This is true, but I don't suppose that the rules differ that much.

> But what is wrong with using a suffix? Suffixes such as
> /QRP /Mobile /Airborne or any other designator shows your
> station is operating in a unique fashion.

/M, /P, /A, /MM and /AM is OK. In some countries these suffixes are even required (or at least some of them like /MM and /AM, the rest is optional) if a station is not operated from the place written on the license. It is not a question of any "unique fashion", but of the QTH. These suffixes, if used, form an official part of the callsign.
/QRP is never part of the callsign, therefore it shall not be used. At least that's what the rules of the game say in my corner of the world.