Discussion in 'Straight Keys - CW Enthusiasts' started by KB1CKT, Aug 26, 2015.

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  1. KB1CKT

    KB1CKT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Dug through the computer and found Your Novice Accent (and what to do about it) by W6DTY. I'd like to ask if anything has changed since oh 1956?

    Tune around and 3x3 CQ calls: no issue there.
    Abbreviations: no issue there.
    KN vs K: no issue here.
    VA vs SK: same result, but never say it as VA before--and I know I read this article years ago! I see the bottom of the page explains this, but I wonder if there is some history here or something.

    CL: I thought sending SK at the end meant "done for the night". I am not that active but don't think I've heard CL on the air.

    R: Ok, missed that sending R's meant "full copy". I thought it meant "Returned" or some such, or a filler character while the sending station got their brain from RX mode to TX mode.

    Commas: I dunno if I agree. It's kinda nice IMO to include after the town, as some towns are multiple words.

    Periods: Personally I find 'em easier to send. But I'm doing my best to cut 'em out, as very few use 'em.


    I'm left though with a question: What is the proper procedure for ending my go-around, but am not done for the evening? Send "AR ab0cd DE kb1ckt KN"? I've gone by whatever the other OP is doing: if they do "BK T U kb1ckt DE ab0cd KN" I do that; sometimes I just do "ab0cd de kb1ckt KN".
  2. SM0AOM

    SM0AOM Ham Member QRZ Page

    As an "old-timer" with a background in military and commercial morse traffic handling I have some comments.
    VA or SK as procedure signs are a matter of taste. Earlier books have been showing the "end of traffic" prosign as VA and newer as SK.

    The prosign R should only be used when the preceding transmission has been received correctly.
    There are no legal implications about the use of R or QSL in amateur radio, but for professional operators this was "serious business". When a received message was acknowledged with R or QSL you had accepted legal responsibility for the correctness of a message.

    The formally correct procedure, according to the ITU Radio Regulations, to end a QSO is to use the prosign AR at the end of the exchange before the last, an AR (+) before the exchange of call signs at the end of the last transmission, and the prosign SK (@) a last part after the exchange.

    "ab0cd de kb1ckt" could formally read "AR ab0cd de kb1ckt CL" as your last transmission.

    A CL prosign should usually be reserved for the occasion where a station is leaving a net not to return again.
    Its use for saying "I am retiring and will not engage in further traffic" is somewhat irregular, but it has become amateur radio procedure to use it in this way.

    In my opinion, use of punctuation outside of formal message handling only has an increased potential for confusion. Unless a message text actually includes punctuation, the use of the BT prosign as a "filler" or "spacer" may create less confusion.

    Procedures may vary between different countries, but these were those I was taught in radio operator's training.

    K8PG and VK5EEE like this.
  3. W5BIB

    W5BIB Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Hi Shawn, for the VA & SK question.
    VA & SK both mean the same thing. This is where the personality comes in.
    VA would be sent as; didididaaah didah. (long dah on the V)
    would be sent as; dididit daaahdidaaah. (long dahs on the K)
    Both VA & SK are sent as one character (no space between each letter)
    It's just a matter of style (only obtainable with a straight key, bug, or sideswiper) ~ Ya can't do this with a keyer or keyboard.

    CL ~ "closing station & will listen for NO more calls)
    If I (W5BIB) am going to be your last contact of the evening & you're "pulling-the-plug" ~ it would go like this;
    73 SK W5BIB de KB1CKT CL (my final transmission, I am closing down & will listen for no more calls)

    SK ~ "my final transmission to you" (our QSO is over, but I'm still going to be on-the-air)
    73 W5BIB de KB1CKT SK (our QSO is over)

    RE; commas & periods. I still make use of both. As you mentioned to separate city & state & I sometimes use a period to end a thought before commenting on another topic. (a BT may also be used here)

    A BT (or a couple) is common practice between topics/comments. It's kinda like taking a breath between thoughts. It not only gives you (the sending operator) a chance to collect your thoughts, but gives the receiving operator a chance also.

    Hope this helps.

    73 de W5BIB SK :)
    M6GYU, KB0TT and VK5EEE like this.
  4. W5BIB

    W5BIB Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    What SM0AOM said !! (I was composing my reply when he posted) :)
  5. KB1CKT

    KB1CKT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Was wondering if American Morse somehow had a hand in this... BTW I can easily smoosh characters together on my keyer and send SK or VA (or KN) as one character, although all the elements are with the 3:1 ratio. My keyboard has keys for SK and KN also, but again with standard 3:1 spacing, so it too can send an SK or KN as one character.

    So, on a net, CL would be used to indicate "I'm done"; but otherwise I would use SK. On my last transmission, I'd either send "AR ab0cd DE kb1ckt CL" if on a net; or "AR ab0cd DE kb1ckt SK".

    Now let's say I'm going to keep talking, it's just time to them them talk. Would I still send "AR ab0cd DE kb1ckt KN", using AR to indicate end of this particular transmission? Not the end of all my transmissions, just this particular one?
  6. KA2CZU

    KA2CZU XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    "I'm done talking, go ahead" I thought was indicated using "BK" or "ab0cd de kb1ckt K"
    M6GYU likes this.
  7. W5BIB

    W5BIB Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    We forgot KN.
    KN ~
    "Go ahead specific station ONLY" all others do not break-in or call.
    Another example would be,... You are calling a specific station on a pre-set schedule & wish to hear only from him.

    i.e., KB1CKT de W5BIB KN (go ahead KB1CKT ONLY)

    BK ~ BREAK
    VK5EEE likes this.
  8. KB1CKT

    KB1CKT Ham Member QRZ Page

    It's interesting how things morph. I can see why military and commercial would have things standardized; but how things morph outside of that. Language keeps evolving, CW included.

    So, if I respond to someone, "ab0cd DE kb1ckt RRRR FB JOE, SLD CPY ON ALL" ... I've basically repeated myself. Which is ok in casual operation, but not really required.

    It is interesting when someone tells me solid copy and then repeats my rig, QTH and antenna, with an OK on each one. I'm not sure how many people do head copy at 13wpm and less; so when someone repeats everything just sent... I wind up writing down what I already know!
  9. KB1CKT

    KB1CKT Ham Member QRZ Page

    I listened to a net the other night, and net control had a question for one station; he sent "QTH?? BK" and the other station sent "BK someplace BK". I think net control then sent BK again, don't fully recall; but it seemed like BK was meant for quick breaks for fast/simple exchange. At least in usage on that net.
  10. KA2CZU

    KA2CZU XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    love this thread, as I am so rusty and been listening around... there are still things out there that throw me (my speed is currently <10 wpm)
    just because I can't recall hearing them before. Something like DN ( meaning / ?) but in places that I don't expect and I'm like "wait, what?"

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