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[Poilicy Q] The 10 minute rule.

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by KG5GPK, Apr 21, 2015.

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  1. AG6QR

    AG6QR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    We all know the rule isn't enforced strictly. But it's still an interesting question (to some of us) to figure out exactly what the rule means, anyway.

    In this case, if you hadn't made that first transmission, "KG5GPK listening", then the other two transmissions would have clearly been legal. A "talk" followed 7 minutes later by a transmission with ID is not a problem.

    But when you change the scenario to have a properly ID'd transmission at the beginning, does that make it illegal? It seems non-intuitive that adding an extra ID transmission turns a legal scenario into an illegal one, doesn't it?

    To refresh the memory, check out 97.119(a): Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions.

    I guess the crucial point for the lawyers to argue is whether all three transmissions were part of the same "communication", as the word is used in 97.119(a). If they were all three in the same communication, then you failed to ID at least every 10 minutes during a communication. If you can argue that the "KG6GPK listening" was part of a separate "communication", then the other two transmissions might be legal. I'm not sure I buy that.
     
  2. W0IS

    W0IS Ham Member QRZ Page

    At first I was going to say that this was a violation, albeit minor, until I read the rule:



    You transmitted your call sign at the end of the communication.

    When you were transmitting, you had transmitted your call sign within ten minutes. So at the point you stopped talking, you hadn't committed any violation.

    Three minutes later, you weren't transmitting. It seems to me you can't commit a violation when you are not transmitting.

    A better practice (and what I would do), especially if you believe that the other guy is going to talk for more than three minutes, would be to simply ID after 7 minutes. But I don't, I don't think it's a violation.

    Of course, if I'm wrong, they'll toss you in Leavenworth, which is the punishment for waiting 11 minutes to ID.
     
  3. K8MHZ

    K8MHZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    I just got in the habit of saying my call sign just before I unkey.

    Like this:

    Me: 'Talk' K8MHZ for I.D.








    OK, I only do that if I know it bothers someone. Othwise, it's 'K8MHZ, over. or K8MHZ, clear'.

    I don't have to worry about the 10 minute rule that way.
     
  4. K3XR

    K3XR Ham Member QRZ Page

    If you are not able to ID within 10 minutes because of repeater hogs you have not transmitted and would have no reason to ID. I suppose you could say an ID could have been made between the 5 and 7 minute point in your example but that's something of a fine point. What's interesting is you could have in fact made an ID prior to the 10 minute mark while the other station was transmitting but would that be deliberate interference? Also toss into the mix the repeater having it's own ID but that does not relieve you of the ID requirement.

    And no it's not OK to ID after 12 minutes the rule states 10 if they wanted it to be 12 it would so state.
     
  5. K0RGR

    K0RGR XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I agree, it would not be a violation on your part. Just because you are part of a roundtable, it doesn't mean that everybody in that roundtable has to ID every 10 minutes. We honestly used to have roundtable discussions on two meters that would take over an hour for each station to take a turn (my 80 meter digital net is like this now, too). We didn't all stand by to ID at the same time every 10 minutes - that would have taken too much time.

    Another phenomenon that you don't see as much anymore that also pertained to that rule was 'the monologue'. Particularly before VOX operation became popular on SSB, hams would throw the T/R switch and do a long dissertation on each transmission, in some cases, almost a filibuster. Every 10 minutes, they'd ID to satisfy the rule, then keep on yakking. Often, they'd turn it back to the other guy only to find that he had faded out ten minutes earlier.

    Speaking of VOX, I don't do much of that anymore, but some 75 meter roundtable users had CW IDers set up to automatically send their call every 10 minutes. I like DSTAR because it sends my call with every transmission, I never have to give it by voice if I don't want to, and the guy on the other end can see my call, name, and type of radio on their rig's display.
     
  6. K4ISR

    K4ISR Ham Member QRZ Page

    1. do not cause interference, if that means it delays you from identifying, then that is within the rules. There are plenty of times I start a conversation and then 45 minutes later a few others are still talking without any breaks for me to identify myself. That is still within the law.

    2. Make every attempt possible to ID without interfering, even if just to ID and say "K4ISR, still listening"... Some people hate when others say "for ID", but then they are the ones that typically keep the others from being able to ID by typing up the signal, so I usually say it anyways "K4ISR for ID, still listening". If they don't like it, screw 'em, I am trying to stay legal.
     
  7. KC9UDX

    KC9UDX Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber Life Member QRZ Page

    I disagree. Identification is not malicious interference. If there are "repeater hogs" yapping and yapping when I need to ID, I turn off my PL, and ID. Simple. But if it wasn't convenient for me to turn off the PL, I'd still ID. I'm legal, I don't care if I interfered with them or not, it's blatantly not malicious, which is what the law says.
     
  8. WA9SVD

    WA9SVD Ham Member QRZ Page

    PURE ANS SIMPLE (for most folk,) you MUST ID within every 10 minute period. No "if's, ands, or buts." You would have been wise (and legal) to have ID'd at your five minute transmission; that would reset the 10 minute timer. Otherwise, you would still be required at the 10 minute interval, regardless.
    It's an FCC RULE, not a matter of anyone else's "dopinion."
     
  9. WA9SVD

    WA9SVD Ham Member QRZ Page

    Sorry, I strongly disagree. The FCC rule seems perfectly clear; you MUST ID at least every 10 minutes. Even if others are tying up a frequency, you still have the regulatory obligation to ID. Quickly saying your call sign would be all that's needed. Saying "for ID" is redundant and unnecessary.(And actually, pretty silly.)
     
  10. KC9UDX

    KC9UDX Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber Life Member QRZ Page

    It depends on the context. I could be talking about you a lot for some reason, saying your callsign in context, in which case I'd make it very clear that "this is KC9UDX for ID".
     

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