PayPal "gift" payments are prohibited

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Gear For Sale' started by AA7BQ, May 17, 2011.

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  1. AA7BQ

    AA7BQ QRZ Founder Administrator Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Effective immediately, we are prohibiting the solicitation of so-called PayPal "gift" payments in all swap meet ads.

    A PayPal gift payment is a transaction in which no goods change hands. It is a gift of money that is not in exchange for goods. Using gift payments to avoid PayPal fees is dishonest and it releases PayPal from all responsibility when it comes to payment disputes, etc.. QRZ, therefore, does not condone such practices.

    Editorial:

    PayPal provides a great service for a fee that some feel is excessive. The actual fee to PayPal ranges from between 3.5 and 4.5 percent, depending on the circumstances. Compared to most other banking institutions, their fees are comparable, and when you consider the utility of being to make secure payments 24 hours per day to virtually anyone else on the internet, it seems clear that it provides an outstanding value.

    Perhaps those who object feel that the fee should be less. No doubt some feel that there should be no fee, which is in itself, an insane proposition. In any event, there is a simple solution. Either use PayPal and pay the fees, or don't use them. Using them and not paying their fees is a non-option. Calling your transaction a 'gift' to avoid the fees is tantamount to hacking, which everybody agrees is a crime.

    I've been a PayPal customer for more than a decade and have at times been disappointed with their services. This, however, pales in comparison to the number of times I've been ticked off by other institutions like my bank and credit card providers. Compared to the latter, PayPal has been a gem. Still, they could improve their service, I'll concede that. In the meantime, I'm going to continue to happily accept PayPal payments and pay the fees that are associated with them.

    If you really want to argue about unreasonable percentages, you should look in to the Apple Store which sells programs, books, music, etc., for the iPhone and iPad products. They extract 30% from every transaction, before taxes. That's why a lot of publishers have stayed away from Apple. Still, millions of people are using them, why? It's because the users are not aware that Apple is inflating all of their their iTunes purchase prices by a third and are naive to assume that "the sellers pay the fee, not themselves".

    So, please think again about trying to beat PayPal out of $5 or even $20 on the next transaction when you sell that big HF rig. Stop trying to pretend that you don't owe them anything for using their service, or that they don't have a right to make a profit. If you don't like them, don't use them.
     
  2. N6BCH

    N6BCH Ham Member QRZ Page

    Thank you, Fred. I've always felt that "gaming" a system to get something for nothing is just another way of stealing. Remember, folks, INTEGRITY is best measured by what you do when nobody is watching.

    I don't think it's a victory to keep the extra money when I receive too much change; I win by being the person who gives it back.
     
  3. N2ULF

    N2ULF Ham Member QRZ Page

    Not sure about your 3.5-4.5% fee number, I thought it was 2.9% + $0.30. In any event, it can be less expensive for a buyer to offer to pay a little extra to cover the paypal fee than it would have been to purchase a USPS Money Order and send it with delivery confirmation to the seller. More important to me is that using paypal tends to get my purchased gear in my hands a week sooner and saves me a trip to the post office.
     
  4. N0YG

    N0YG Ham Member QRZ Page

    Fred
    You should do your research before you pop off about PayPal fees. Go to there site and you will see the fee is 2.9% or less + like $.29 for something. Everything thing else is correct. I will probably get 86'd now that I disagreed with the GREAT OZ, " FRED" !! Fun while it lasted.
     
  5. K9XR

    K9XR Ham Member QRZ Page

    There is one more option with PayPal that was not covered. It is the "personal" and "payment owed" option. You decide who pays the fee (2.9% + $.30). It still covered by PayPal and it gives someone a chance to send money without the seller incurring the charges. I have done it when the seller doesn't want to pay the PayPal fees. I won't do the "gift" thing because there is no protection. If you advertise a price for an item but DON'T specify PayPal as a payment option, I see nothing wrong with the buyer using this option if he wants to use PayPal.
     
  6. W2KG

    W2KG Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Thanks, Fred. It seems to me the "gift scam" is a theft of services and should be prosecuted in kind. My experience with PayPal over the last ten years as been consistently positive although I know of other verifiable cases of friends who experienced very poor service. Nevertheless PayPal does provide a needed service in the 21st century. It would be a lot simpler if the sellers would simply roll the 3.5% into their sale price like they do when they offer "free" shipping. Can't imagine that the arithmetic is too challenging.
     
  7. W4SPD

    W4SPD XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    No worries, this is just one more reason to do all my buying and selling on QTH.
     
  8. KN7S

    KN7S Swapmeet Moderator Emeritus Volunteer Moderator Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Fred,
    Maybe I am missing something, but I purchased an antenna on this forum a couple of months ago and the seller insisted I use PayPal as a gift, which I did. Our agreed upon price was $87.00. When I did the PayPal transaction, I was charged $87.00 + approx. $2.25 as a transaction fee. Based upon this, I don't see how PayPal is being defrauded or why "gifting" should be banned. What did I miss?
     
  9. W7WYY

    W7WYY Guest

    I have used PayPal dozens of times and they have actually saved my wallet by going after the seller that defrauded me and I have never lost a dime, as a mater of fact I will ONLY buy with PayPal and wont even consider a seller that does not use it..Good job Fred,,,,
     
  10. KD4E

    KD4E Ham Member QRZ Page

    Someone needs to tell the Paypal folks this as they told me something entirely different.
    Paypal-Personal is for non-business users of Paypal with the funds used in their account or direct-withdrawal from their bank.
    The Payment-Owed option under Paypal-Personal is for transactions between non-businesses (personal transactions).
    The reason there is no fee, Paypal's choice not the users, is to encourage more people to use Paypal and to do so from funds already in their Paypal balance or from their bank -- and to <b>discourage</b> the use of non-Paypal credit cards.
    The cost and hassle of non-Paypal credit cards, and their desire to promote Paypal credit cards, motivated the promotion of the Paypal-Personal Payment-Owed option (as described above).
    Now, it is possible that the Paypal employee who told me all of this is all-wet ...
    BTW: I believe that Paypal makes profitable investments, like a bank, with the funds in their accounts - so the fees are extra income and not their sole source of profit.
    IMHO, YMMV ... 73, KD4E
     
  11. QRZ
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