Operating on 60 meters

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by WY4K, Mar 15, 2019.

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  1. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Answer - they come on the channel and ASK! Unlike on PSK31, everybody on FT8 is listening a minimum of thirty seconds every minute.

    But that isn't as relevant any more - the bigger problem for any USA primary user (NTIA) in the above scenario is often, like right now, on 5.357 Mhz here in FL, more than 50% of the signals are NOT from an FCC jurisdiction. :oops:
     
  2. KK5JY

    KK5JY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    This is actually not true. During the time period when one set of users is listening, another set of users is transmitting. The 2.8kHz block of bandwidth is essentially fully occupied for around 90% of the time.

    The picture you linked above makes it clear that there is no room for a voice user to ask for the channel, not in frequency, nor in time. They would be literally drowned out by the FT8 users.
     
  3. AA5CT

    AA5CT Ham Member QRZ Page

    re: "How does an NTIA-authorized voice user "ask the channel" to immediately cease operation, when THIS is going on?"

    I never got an answer to this: How does an authorized use interrupt a code practice session or a long-winded op giving his life's story on SSB?

    But, I think I know the answer ...
     
    WU8Y and W0PV like this.
  4. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    It's exactly true - I didn't say the slots weren't potentially occupied, each FT8 station in the waterfall is LISTENING for 50% of a minute. That's better then any other mode except possibly QSK Morse CW. The picture shows centering in the 2.8 khz 'mini-band" just as specified. :D

    If a primary user needs to use the channel, just ASK! Some users are listening. Don't you keep the speaker turned up between FT8 xmsns? :p

    The primary might have to crank up the QRO (we know they have it) and try a few times but the hammy sig's are all just puny limited peanut whistles riiiiight ;)
     
  5. KK5JY

    KK5JY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Half(-ish) of the stations are listening during any timeslot. The other half(-ish) are transmitting. Dude, it's in the manual. ;)

    Any primary station that wants to ask for the channel to be cleared has no chance of doing so if the channel is busy with FT8. They won't get two words out before the next timeslot rolls in.

    You're breaking the rules. Admit it. It will go much easier for you later on. :D
     
  6. KK5JY

    KK5JY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    All that was explained in the ARRL FAQ linked earlier. I can't help people who won't read the material. :oops:
     
  7. N1FM

    N1FM Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I'm trying to think if there would be a practical way for a Primary to tell all of the FT-8 users in both intervals to stand by... Many of the Primary stations only use digital modes, so there may not be any interoperability. Also, when 30 or 40 hams are sending tones, I've seen signal strengths of more than 20 over 9. Would a boat off the southern coast of Brazil have the power output to ask all those FT-8 users to stand by? Even if they heard the Primary operator, do the FT-8 users on 60m even understand they're Secondary users, who are supposed to stand by, when they hear other traffic? Would the hams all stand by, even if they did hear traffic from the Primary station? Something tells me they'd just keep working stations and muttering about that damn interference from the Lid with the Brazilian accent.
     
    N3AB likes this.
  8. KP4SX

    KP4SX XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Ok. Howza about those of us who care in 2019 write to the ARRL (our reps in this matter) for some clarification of the current legal interpretation? Who is the specific individual to whom this question should be addressed?
     
    KK5JY likes this.
  9. KK5JY

    KK5JY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Please let us know what you find out.

    I can't write to ARRL, because they don't represent me -- membership lapsed long ago.
    In the past (when I was a member), I have written to Dan Henderson, N1ND, about regulatory and compliance issues. He tends to reply rather promptly to email.

    I got his contact information from here: http://www.arrl.org/regulatory-advocacy
     
  10. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    The question is interesting - just how do 60m primary users get the attention of amateurs for exclusive use of any channel?

    For CW or SSB it's obvious, unless the primary is only digital. But if the hammys are on FreeDV doing five minute monologues, then what? o_O

    I am pondering there is probably a reason why the 60m channel 3 was chosen as the "digital" channel. I would find it hard to think it was just coincidence. Hmmm, perhaps its because ch3 is seldom or ever used by any primary?

    Hard to imagine that ONLY 60m channel 3 is workable for a primaries purpose at any given moment. Of course urgent contingencies do arise. But I surmise that too much is being read into the whole primary interrupting scenario.

    I think if a USA primary user wants to use any particular channel for a planned special purpose, say Operation Black Swan 18 (why not Blackbriar? Treadstone? )and they are concerned about not just interchangeability but QRM from hams, they better think to make this known ahead of time and stipulate which dates / times / channels.

    Do a media release that will get the word out, hey, send out an ARRRL BULL-it-tan (?) :eek:

    Hammies are largely a cooperative bunch, even a few of the non-obligated DX ;-) :D
     

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