ONE-WAY PROPAGATION

Is it just me or has there been a serious increase in ONE WAY PROPAGATION on
VHF and UHF lately?

You know, the kind where you turn on your radio, and you can hear other hams talking, but when they finish and you try to call one (or any) of them, all you hear is static?  This kind of ignorance could be the death of amateur radio as many of us know it.  

I know a young man (14??) in town, who happens to be an Extra class licensee. He has been told by a group of  hams in the area that he should not be talking to another specific group of hams.  It was implied that if he did talk to them, he would lose the great privilege of talking to the people in their group.

I can only assume I am one of these hams that he is not supposed to talk to, since "the group" has stopped talking to me as well.

Now what kind of way is this to treat a new ham?  Here we have a very enthusiastic, able-minded young person who could do wonders for the amateur community, and he is being snuffed instead of encouraged.  So discouraged I am by this behavior, I have been tempted to delete these frequencies from the memory channels on my radios.

I should say I have noticed similar attitudes by other repeater groups elsewhere too (I travel much and always have radio equipment with.)

What ever happened to HAMS being brothers?  All hams liked all hams, and all hams helped other hams.  Just like any other large group of people with similar interests.  We all stuck together, no matter how our opinions may have differed or whatever other minor differences we had that made us each unique and individual.

Whether it's helping the new guy tune his antenna, or climbing a tower to replace an old timer's rotor ... or even just taking a minute to answer a CQ call from an unfamiliar callsign ... it's all the same.  Hams helping hams.  That's the way it SHOULD be.

Well, I just thought I'd put my 2 cents worth in on this childish behavior, and I hope ONE WAY PROPAGATION doesn't plague your QTH any time soon.

In the mean time, I'll continue to direct my efforts toward the HF bands and occasionally monitor the repeaters to rescue other victims of ONE-WAY PROPAGATION from drowning in silence!


AE9ZH/m 73  

 

I believe the Amateur's Code in the ARRL's FCC RULE BOOK says what we are all about (well most of us)

THE RADIO AMATEUR IS:
CONSIDERATE...never knowingly operates is such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.
LOYAL...offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local clubs, and the American Radio Relay League, throught which Amateur Radio in the United Stated is represented nationally and internationally.
PROGRESSIVE...with knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and efficient station and operation above reproach.
FRIENDLY...slow and patient peration when requested; friendly advice and counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interestes of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spirit.
BALANCED...radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school or community.
PATRIOTIC...station and skill always ready for service to country and community.

The original Amateur's Code was written by Paul M Segal, W9EEA in 1928.
I think it speaks for most of us. I think there will always be some who feel the need to ah well difficult!
AK6S
Sherry

 

Last time I checked the ARRL antenna handbook, it stated that one way propagation does not exsist.

Sounds like some people have lost touch with the purpose of amateur radio. Reminds me of that question on the Extra exam: "What is the purpose of morse code testing?"... The answer is not to screen people out or protect some type of group.

 

Looks like it's time to delete some freqs from your radio! But seriously, there will always be arrogance and conceit on the ham bands. Best thing to do? Be a good example, welcome newcomers yourself. If you are a member of the repeater club, you have as much say as any other member as to how you would like the repeater to "sound" to others. I ran into the same problem, years ago. I joined the group, started going to the meetings and getting involved, and confronting those that were making new hams uncomfortable. It got ugly for a while, but after I rallied the "silent majority", the "repeater gods" got disgusted because no one would play their game anymore... and they left.


From 1 Tim ch 3:1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God-- 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

73! Bill K0ZL

 

I share in your distaste and confusion, with regards to the aforementioned circumstances. It pains us all - whether consciously or sub-consciously - when this type of behaviour is apparent. Even those who endorse this type of behaviour may not realize that they are actually shooting themselves in the foot. If I was looking to take away bands or frequencies from Amateur Radio enthusiasts (like the FCC is unofficially doing) I would start by listening for this type of horrid behaviour and use it as part of the ammunition needed to obtain that goal.

Although I'm fairly new to the hobby, I have acquired great help and tutelage from seasoned HAMs. I have met a few on-air that I prefer not to converse with any time soon, but that is my choice. For me to impose a decision I make for myself onto others - or worse, newly licensed operators - is not only disgusting, but would discredit the Amateur Radio community as a whole.

For those of you caught in the middle, please remember: You are the only one in charge of your decisions. If you allow others to make decisions for you, it will only show that you have no will of your own. Make your own decisions! By all means, lead! Don't become a slave or enslave others! Obviously, you've made your own decision to become a licensed Amateur Radio operator. Kudos to you! Keep up the good work!

This post is in no way a method to enrage anyone in particular. This particular post is only to make public the thoughts I have regarding this particular topic. I thank everyone who takes the time to read it.

73, Chris KC2KFW

 

This type of operating started in the area I am in several years ago. It really hit me in the head one day when I arrived at a car wreck on the side of the road in a tree. I dug out the old 2 meter handi and brought up one of the local repeters but failed to get anyone to answer. I then tryed the other repeter and was quickly told it was a "private" repeter and they did not care how many people needed help and that I should get a cell phone. He was right! I did get a cell phone and I got rid of all my 2 meter equipment.

 

Yes, yes, yes, ham radio has changed.

    Cry baby cry, cry baby cry, stick your finger in your eye, cry baby cry.

    Have little trust in the human race, put your trust in God and your faith is well founded.

    May God bless America, Amen and Amen.

 

People like you are talking about and the one that made that last post, Are the ones that give Ham radio a bad name.

 

"I then tryed the other repeter and was quickly told it was a "private" repeater and they did not care how many people needed help and that I should get a cell phone. "

geez, you should have reported that sleezeball to the fcc. something about poor operating practice perhaps??

i have seen this too. the way i handle it is by saying something along the lines of "wow, i guess my 2 gigawatt radio and 75db antenna arent making the machine" and then clearing the freq! kinda like a "i know your ignoring me bozo" statement. when i hear the individual on the air again i ask them why they didnt come back to me when i called. one good smarta$$ deserves another eh?

i can understand sometimes a fella is busy or whatever but at least have the courtesy to come back and say "cant chat, gotta run" or something. this is a very social hobby. if you want to have a selective, private conversation then use a phone.

i go on all sorts of repeaters. we have plenty of "cliques" here in south fl. some folks here have been banned off of a few repeaters but there has been a reason for it... one guy will literally interrogate you with a barrage of questions and the second sits there and hammers newbies when they make a mistake. both are sure ways of running people out of the hobby so we figured its better to lose those two than to scare off a whole bunch. the interrogator has chilled out after a few people have told him he's irritating other hams and the self proclaimed radio cop has disapeared after being kicked off well over 10 machines in dade county.

i have yet to run into the whole "closed" repeater thing and god forbid i run into it during an emergency. i'll make it my new hobby to enlighten that particualr individuals entire circle of friends about how he kicked me off the machine while i was trying to get help. thats a big NO-NO. closed or not closed. its an emergency, shut your pie hole and get help now! period!

all i can say is grab the bull by the horns. some folks just need a good kick in the nads to realize they're being jerks.

73
robert cruz
ke4mcl

 

KC8FKS, Hello young man, you are very very funny.  Welcome to the ranks of the "new" ham radio.
         
                           73, and congrats on your ticket,
                                  W6th

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ae9zh @ Nov. 28 2002,03:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What ever happened to HAMS being brothers?  All hams liked all hams, and all hams helped other hams.  Just like any other large group of people with similar interests.  We all stuck together, no matter how our opinions may have differed or whatever other minor differences we had that made us each unique and individual.

Whether it's helping the new guy tune his antenna, or climbing a tower to replace an old timer's rotor ... or even just taking a minute to answer a CQ call from an unfamiliar callsign ... it's all the same.  Hams helping hams.  That's the way it SHOULD be.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
When ham radio was a relatively small group (125,000 to 250,000) it WAS a sort of fraternity.  Anywhere you went, if you saw a ham license plate, you could count on making a new friend by simply tapping out (yeah, in Morse) "HI" on your horn.  Those days are gone.  We outgrew them.   Now I see ham tags and I try a non-Morse greeting (and my vehicle has plainly-ham antennas on it) such as a wave, and I get blank stares or an upraised finger.  

I recently purchased a Yaesu VX5R HT.  After listening for a few days to the public safety radio around, and to the ham repeaters, I blocked out the repeaters and it is now a public safety scanner.  Of course the repeaters are still there, and can be used, but it is very boring to hear the same guy contact the same guy, every day, at the same time, and talk about the same things.  It is even more boring to hear truck drivers get on the state-wide link and talk their way across our 350 mile wide state, about unloading here, and loading there, and pulling this trailer or that trailer.  It is even more boring, and a lot more frustrating, to hear "wifey" call "hubby" on the 2-meter cell phone and say "bring home some bread, and I'm clear."  

So what I say to you is, go ahead.  Delete the frequencies.  Try something different.  Do ILink if you have to, (but don't forget to return to ham radio when you are done&#33  Try HF.  Do ATV.  Try APRS.  PSK31, 2 meter SSB or 6 meter data.  Or, (forgive me for this indiscretion)  try CW.   Join a 75 meter roundtable, or chase DX on 10 or 20.  Try RTTY.  Play with 903 MHZ - it could use the attention.  

Cliques are easy to avoid - go somewhere else.  If they don't want to talk to you, why in hell do you want to talk to them?  Forget them.  

Private repeater?  One of the reasons I dislike repeaters - they are basically just ego trips - someone's way to lay claim to a "private amateur frequency."  They do, with FCC approval, exactly what we bitch about on HF - the old farts laying claim to a frequency.  But on 2 meters we think it's great!!   Duck spit.

If that young 14 year old fella loses the privilege of talking to that group, he has gained, not lost.  He has climbed the ladder of amateur radio.

Having said all that, I have VHF and UHF capabilities, and in inclement weather I do indeed monitor a wide-area repeater, so, even for the "silent ones" I can report accidents and road conditions to the needy, or weather conditions to the NWS.   I do have HF through UHF capabilties in my vehicles as well, but again, I find the ham repeaters are generally locked out.  If I come across an accident, I can quickly try a repeater, but to be honest, the object of reporting an accident is to assist at the scene, not to get in a plug for ham radio.  Consequently I am far more likely to try the cell phone first, and then try ham radio only if the cell phone is out of range (as happens here in the desert.)   That is, in fact, what I recommend to any ham - use the cell phone for emergencies.  It is far quicker, and more reliable, than ham or CB radio.
Yes, that will make a lot of hams angry! But what is the object? To help at the scene? Or to be "da ham dude" helping at the scene? Use the best means necessary to get the job done, and that is generally the cell phone.

I think, (back to the original subject&#33 there have always been cliques in ham radio.  Certainly when I came into it in the mid-fifties there were certain round tables on 75 meters that would not acknowledge me, though I was intimidated by these old experts and didn't really try - I preferred to listen.    Cliques and exclusive groups are not new to this hobby, or to any other, for example motorcycle clubs, or flying clubs, or spelunking groups.  And they are not illegal.   And at some time or other a lot of us have been in a group that really didn't welcome outsiders very easily, whether it was a ham radio group, camping, mountain climbing, skiing, boating or sandlot baseball group.  We had our friends, and our limits.

It happens in ham radio.  Where I believe it is a serious problem in ham radio, though, is the spectre of "private frequencies."   That is truly exclusive.  I'm tempted sometime to set up an SSB roundtable on one of the repeater output frequencies!  Or maybe a CW net!  But that's vindictive and I wont' do it - I'll just dream about it!  

You are right - the way it SHOULD be.  It will never be that way again, so one must adapt to the way it IS going to be.  And we see the trend.

73
Ed

 

I think that they should make it illegal to operate a closed repeater. You can run on and on about privately owned equipment but they are public frequencies. To the guy who wasn't allowed to pass emergency traffic over the closed repeater he should contact the FCC and tell them the guys call sign, that's pretty rough.

Where I'm from I guess I'm lucky. If someone is talking I can wait until they're done and they will call back. When I was travelling I found 30 repeaters I could use from my station. They were usually busy but sure enough when I called all of them none of them answered me. I don't think that a group was trying to shun me I just don't think it is likely that nobody was listening. One-way propagation is creative idea but I think they are just mike shy.

If a group is ignoring you or asking you to ignore someone then just don't pay any attention to them. Contact whoever you want and have fun with the hobby. Encourage others to join you and if you really want to show them put up your own repeater and anyone use it.

 

Well look at it this way. Most likely the gentelmen in this "group" are confined to talking on that 2 meter CB. You have extra privledges, you have access to all amatuer bands. You can go to where this one-way propogation is not so common. Leave 2, 40, and 80 meters to those "i'm a better ham than you" people. Find me on 10, 15, 17, and 20 meters. 73 and enjoy your Extra Class ticket.

 

The thing that I have found to be true, is the people that have their own "clicks," are mostly on the vhf+ bands, and only hold a technician license. These people started out there radio lives as CBers, and that kind of mentality, is very common-place on the C.B. Don't get me wrong, as I too started out with C.B., but I would never get into the "clicks", and just did it for fun, which later on I found amateur radio, and I have never looked back.

I have found some ops in the lower bands that have the same attitude, which some hold Extra class licenses, but as a rule, it is not found as much as it is on the vhf+ bands

 

"Yes, yes, yes, ham radio has changed.

Cry baby cry, cry baby cry, stick your finger in your eye, cry baby cry."


... And what is THAT supposed to mean? That 'one way propogation' is the 'new ham radio'?

If that's the new ham radio, let me tell you this: it isn't going to last very long at all from this point on.

I'd really like to see how anyone can rationally justify this sort of behavior.

Welcome to the new CB, I guess.