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On this date in history

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by WJ4U, Aug 17, 2020.

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  1. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    I git it and enjoyed the chuckle... :) Jes' clarifying my earlier post.

    Carry on:)
     
    W7UUU likes this.
  2. KW4BY

    KW4BY Ham Member QRZ Page

  3. W1HFN

    W1HFN Ham Member QRZ Page

     
  4. W1HFN

    W1HFN Ham Member QRZ Page

    Visited the Big Ear in the early 90s. Got a guided tour from one of the volunteers and took half a dozen pics inside and out. For more detail, see John Kraus, W8JK (SK) book "Antennas" second edition, Page 611. ISBN 0-07-0354 22-7. Basically a college text book, I bought mine in 1997 for $73.00 at Long's Bookstore in Columbus, bet it costs more now!
    Barry - W1HFN
     
  5. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Hi Barry,

    JK also did a a fascinating autobio called :'Big Ear'. Sure it can be found in ebay at times.

    73
    Chip W1YW
     
  6. K0KP

    K0KP XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Protocol calls for verification of a suspect extraterrestrial signal before it is announced to the world. The fact that the WOW signal was not verified means just that. However it does not mean that the signal can be dismissed as not being of extraterrestrial in origin. It very well could have been. Concerning interference, malfunction, overload and so forth the Big Ear software featured substantial routines to check for malfunctioning hardware. The WOW signal matched the main beam pattern which indicates that it's location was at least as far distant as the moon. Terrestrial interference should have shown up in both of the two feed horns simultaneously and the WOW signal did not do so. Terrestrial interference, some off-frequency overload interference, or orbiting satellite interference located closer than the moon would not have matched the aperture of the antenna's main beam as the WOW signal did. International agreement dictated that the frequency in was not to be used for terrestrial or space transmission. So what was the origin of the signal? Nobody knows for certain, but it very well could have been of extraterrestrial origin.

    The success of the Big Ear telescope including the advances in scientific knowledge it brought about along with the unique design of the Kraus antenna qualified it for historical preservation. The Ohio State sky survey and cataloging 60,000 signal sources 60% of which were new discoveries are just a couple of examples. There are many more. The fact that the Big Ear was the site of the famous WOW signal is one more reason for preservation. There are many golf courses but we only had one Big Ear.

    http://www.w1ghz.org/bigear/bigear.html

    http://www.setileague.org/articles/bigear.htm
     
  7. W0ICQ

    W0ICQ Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Wow..!
     
  8. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    You should read the prior posts. Already addressed. Here's more--

    Overload from a satellite--as an explanation-- falls well within the 'beam' and other criteria. A satellite is CIRCUMTERRESTRIAL and IN THE FAR FIELD, which explains why it can be seen in the drift scan of the beam. That is far more likely an explanation that an extraterrestrial 'signal', that does not repeat, and has no information content.

    The fact that there is a weak image a few channels away is high probability for overload from an RF circumterrestrial source outside of the passband, 'Outside the passband' means INSIDE ALLOCATED FREQUENCIES FOR SATELLITES. This arises because the radio astronomy allocation at 21cm is a narrow sliver at microwave and has adjacent --in frequency--mobile/fixed/sat users. That is, 'outside the Big Ear passband'.

    The received power pattern cannot distinguish, via deconvolution, the minor drift of a satellite from a drifting --transiting--point source. The sampling of the beam does not provide sufficient data points to do that.

    There is absolutely no evidence that this is a 'signal' from an extraterrestrial civilization.

    Your quote is decades old, and ignores the outcome made by astronomers: no support BY THE ASTRONOMICAL COMMUNITY for Big Ear in its last years spelt a golf course and a housing project.

    Should that have happened? That's an interesting question. Unfortunately, over two +decades too late to answer.


    73
    Chip W1YW
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  9. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    BTW, the 'radiating far field' of the defunct Big Ear was roughly 150km at 21 cm.

    That is 'circumterrestrial' in distance , not 'extraterrestrial'.

    Almost all satellites in those days would not be a 'LEO', and would easily be in the far field.
     
  10. K0KP

    K0KP XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Dr. Robert S Dixon, then Assistant Director of the Ohio State Observatory, stated that the signal had to be at least a lunar distance, 240,000 miles distant from the antenna. He says "The signal was unmistakably strong, and had all the characteristics of an extraterrestrial signal. It was narrowband, and matched the antenna pattern exactly, indicating it had to be at least at lunar distance. (A signal from a nearer object would show a wider pattern.) But it was not coming from the direction of the moon, or any planet, or even any particular known star or galaxy. Of course, there are always many distant stars and galaxies in the beam of a radiotelescope all the time, but that is not significant. A check of manmade satellite data showed that no publicly-known earth satellites were anywhere near the position of the signal source." - Dr. Robert S Dixon - OSU Observatory

    There is absolutely no evidence proving that the WOW signal was not of extraterrestrial in origin.
     
  11. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Bob (W8ERD) is incorrect on this point--as posed. No reflection on him; just the facts don't support that number.

    You are welcome to quote him, and it certainly is worthwhile to see how science works.

    Facts are the decider in all such cases. Let's take a deeper look.

    The issue at hand is the power pattern (the 'beam') and the minimum distance a source must have to manifest the main beam's lobe within the drift scan. This is limited by two main issues: the TIME SAMPLING(quantization) of the drift, and THE MINIMUM FAR FIELD DISTANCE needed for the source to be capable of manifesting the beam in the drift scan.

    The FAR FIELD (minimum)distance is determined by the gain (and hence effective diameter) of the antenna. You are welcome to plug in values into the various far field calculators and get your own distance. Here, I prefer to work it BACKWARD here--assume the far field distance minimum is about 240,000 miles. To wit: what is the effective diameter of the antenna needed to manifest such a minimum far field at 21cm wavelength?

    Your answer will be roughly 6,100 meters for the effective diameter, or 20,000+ feet approximately . The effective area of about 2.7 x 10^7 meters squared.

    The actual aperture of Big Ear was 21 x 174 m I believe, yielding an effective aperture of 3650 meters squared or a dish of about 190 feet across (diameter) if 100 % efficient.

    So we see that the Big Ear was far, far smaller than the size needed by a radio telescope to have its far field at a minimum distance to the moon.

    Its' actual far field was achieved orders of magnitude closer than the distance to the moon. Ccircumterrestrial sources would be capable of manifesting the 'beam' pattern in a drift scan. I already discussed that in an earlier post.

    Now on the sampling issue. Elsewhere you can see how Jerry (I believe) connect the sparse number of dots to guess at the drift scan signature, in order to compare it to the beam. Because those data are very sparse, the Gaussian shown is a guess, that does not manifest the quantization roundoff --IOW the 'error bars' in the projected fit. Deconvolving the beam is thus not a unique driver to a solution that the 'source' was point-like. It could be a point, it could be extended. It could be several sources close together in solid angle. All the data really show is that the source was not extended in solid angle appreciably, say, by 1/4 a moon diameter as an illustrative example.

    So we can't say that the source was a point--as expected by an ETI signal-- and we can't say the source was farther away than the moon. All we can say is that the source compatible with it being in the far field, and not appreciably extended.

    Many radio sources have those attributes, including but not limited to, certain satellite paths, certain radio galaxies, and yes, an ETI signal.

    Radio galaxies are not narrow band. So they are discarded as an explanation.

    "There is absolutely no evidence proving that the WOW signal was not of extraterrestrial in origin". Absolutely true. It is also true to say the same quote with 'circumterrestrial' instead. But these don't mean anything. All it means is there are several possible explanations. So, how do we decide?

    Science, in the absence of unambiguous solutions, chooses the most probable and most 'simple' as the working explanation. Always.

    Your comment implies that we cannot disprove the radio source was an intelligent extraterrestrial signal. Again , that is not how science works. Also, the fact that the WOW was not redundantly detected, nor contained any information content, is at odds with it being an ETI 'signal' as the simplest and scientifically supported explanation.

    I hope this helps. These sort of things should always be invitations for fellow radio amateurs to learn more about the radio art and science.

    73
    Chip W1YW
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  12. NE1LL

    NE1LL Ham Member QRZ Page

    The Ohio State University had leased the property and never had title or ownership.
     
  13. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Ohio-Weslyan owned it(parcel) I believe.
     
  14. NE1LL

    NE1LL Ham Member QRZ Page

    No, Dr Kraus owned nearby property that he donated to Ohio Wesleyan. Ohio Wesleyan sold the 'Big Ear' property in 1983 to developers. Regrettably Ohio State failed to take advantage of the sale. Removed in 1997 about one third of the antenna's life was under the developer's ownership. 40 years of service, it served a long life. The traditional looking radio telescope antenna array on West Campus by the nuclear reactor was also removed about this time.
     
  15. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    You mean :yes.

    Ohio Weslyan owned the parcel at the time of the sale.

    Why did you say 'no'?

    Makes no sense....
     

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