"No PAYPAL" = Scammer ?

Discussion in 'Stolen Radios, Scams and Rip-Offs' started by N7MTC, Dec 31, 2015.

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  1. N7MTC

    N7MTC Ham Member QRZ Page

    Every time I read a swap meet post with the "No PAYPAL" disclaimer especially with the added Money Orders or some other certified bank draft requirement the little voice in my head screams "SCAMMER".

    Am I wrong in this?

    I have no affiliation with PP any would be open to any other (don't know any off the top of my head) legitimate pay with protection services. And I have had my money "delayed" by PP for a period of time. But I have never been robbed by PP.

    So back to my original question am I alone in believing the label "No PayPal" is a HUGE red flag for scam, or am I just paranoid ?
     
  2. KA0HCP

    KA0HCP XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Yes, you are paranoid. I've bought plenty of equipment with MO's. It's good to be cautious, but not everyone in the world uses Paypal, especially older folks, and people just making one time or occasional sales.
     
    N7MTC, W9NWR and W4RAA like this.
  3. K7TRF

    K7TRF Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I use and like Paypal both as a buyer and a seller but it's clear a lot of hams don't care for Paypal for a variety of reasons. Paypal sure makes it easier to simply buy something and close the deal immediately but if there's something I really want and the seller wants a money order then it's not a big deal to head over to the post office and get one. But I wouldn't send a money order to a po box or address that doesn't agree with the ham's FCC/QRZ registered address without some additional proof that I'm not getting scammed and won't ever use Western Union or similar means of sending cash.

    I'll also send money orders out via certified mail which gives me tracking and a delivery signature, sure I can still be scammed but you raise the bar by forcing a scammer to sign for the receipt of a postal money order. Mail fraud is investigated and prosecuted so creating a paper trail is a good idea.

    So yeah, I like Paypal and it increases the chance that I'll purchase something but I don't immediately think I'm being scammed if the seller prefers a money order but neither do I blindly send off funds.

    YMMV,
    -Dave
     
    N7MTC likes this.
  4. K0EED

    K0EED XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    The reason that lots of hams don't like PayPal anymore is that PayPal will ALWAYS side with the buyer. Yeah it's great if you are a buyer and you have someone willing to accept paypal as payment but you have to look at it from the side of the seller. If you are selling a high ticket item and you have a dubious buyer (putting it nicely) you are at the mercy as the seller to the buyers whims.

    Let's say you have a piece of vintage high dollar gear and you sell to someone and accept PayPal. You ship the item "AS DESCRIBED" (read working with no problems) and you get some yutz who doesn't know how to operate it or worse yet is looking for parts. Gets the item and either misuses it and toasts it or worse swaps parts for one's he needs (read he puts his junk parts in your radio and takes the good working parts for his) then tells paypal the item wasn't as described. Doesn't work. Guess who paypal will side with in this transaction? If you say the seller you are 100% wrong. Paypal will pull the money promptly from your account and hold it until he proves he has shipped it back to the seller. Once it's been confirmed delivered the seller now has a non working radio that was either misused or robbed of working parts and you are SOL.

    You don't think the above scenario has happened? You'd be wrong. If everyone was honest it would be great but we don't live in that Utopian world.
     
    N7MTC likes this.
  5. KN7S

    KN7S Swapmeet Moderator Emeritus Volunteer Moderator Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    I'd say not exactly A few years back I sold a higher end audio mixing board on eBay via PayPal. Turned out the buyer lived nearby so he came to pick it up. I had left it in my shack partially hooked up so he could see that it worked. He thought it was fine and left with the board and the instruction/user manual. Awhile later I got notification from PayPal that the buyer wanted his money back as the board did not work when he took it home and hooked it up. I sent the seller several e-mails before he finally answered up. We agreed that I would come to his house and take a look at it. When I got there I noticed he had inputs going into outputs and vice versa. The board had an onboard AC power supply but could run off of 12 VDC at about 4 amps. He had used a 500 milliamp wall wart instead of plugging it into AC. I also noticed that the instruction book was still all sealed up in the ZipLoc freezer bag that I had put it in. Long story short I spent a good hour + hooking up his audio input devices, amplifier and such while plugging it into his AC outlet.
    He agreed to drop his claim with PayPal. After a week or so I had heard nothing from him or PayPal. I e-mailed the buyer multiple times with no response. I finally got a little higher up the food chain at PayPal. They said they would look into and get back to me. A few days later PayPal e-mailed me and said my PayPal account had been credited with the cost of the board.
    I don't know if this guy was trying to rip me off or what but PayPal did come through for this seller! I've also been saved a couple of times as a buyer using PayPal.
    Back to the original topic, I think the folks that refuse to take PayPal are not necessarily scammers. They have their reasons whether it is because they don't want to pay the 3% fee or whatever. You just have to trust your gut when you see an ad for an item you want to buy.
     
    N7MTC likes this.
  6. KA9JLM

    KA9JLM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Just do not buy it if you do not like the terms.

    Simple as apple pie.
     
    W6KKO, N7MTC, W4IOA and 3 others like this.
  7. K0EED

    K0EED XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Glad it worked out for you. Unfortunately 99% of transactions surely don't happen within a distance where you can meet up with the buyer otherwise why use paypal? Always is a pretty strong word on my part but I believe it's true that for those who can't meet up in person the stories of sellers being protected like the buyers are are few and far between. Yeah as a buyer if you find a seller willing to take paypal it's great for the buyer. For the seller though not so much so. You are at the mercy of people like the one you just referred to. Luckily for him he didn't ruin the item you sold him but you proved my point in that he never read the instructions and your story could have as easily ended up with him unintentionally ruining an item due to his own negligence but then you being the one who would be out your money and you would have ended up with a toasted audio mixing board.
     
    N7MTC likes this.
  8. N0TZU

    N0TZU Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    I don't do a lot of selling so I won't bother with PayPal. If I did it as a business then I would, and the risk of having a sale reversed would just be another cost.

    Last time I sold something I took a personal check, which worked fine but it took about 3 weeks to legally clear which is not so fine, either for me or the buyer. So it will be money orders from now on.
     
    N7MTC likes this.
  9. N9LCD

    N9LCD Ham Member QRZ Page

    There's a principle in audit and control work:

    "IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO BAD ENOUGH, TRIES HARD ENOUGH AND SPENDS ENOUGH, HE WILL GET YOU."
     
    N7MTC likes this.
  10. WB4M

    WB4M Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Not necessarily. I've bought and sold a number of items using money orders, but will use USPS money orders only. I've had a PayPal acct. for quite some time now and love it, never had a problem whatsoever. It's even better when buying from a dealer such as DXEngineering. However, the only time I have actually been ripped off, the guy said what you mentioned, no PayPal, bank drafts or MO's only. I paid him with postal MO and he promptly sent item, but removed from the "new" box various cables and connectors. After reading so many rip off and scam stories, I am about to the point of just buying whatever I need new from a reputable dealer unless it is an older, hard to find item.
     

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