No FT8 ROBOTS allowed in ARRL Contests!

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by WA6MHZ, Aug 13, 2019.

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  1. KK5JY

    KK5JY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    In order to have any meaning at all, the rule would have to specify that each contact be made by direct and independent initiation for each contact. Otherwise, the term "contemporaneous" has no meaning, because it doesn't limit how many consecutive contacts can be counted per operator instruction.

    E.g., what if I use a macro or set of macros that is able to make two or more contacts back to back as the result of a single mouse-click? What about three? What about ten? Without an independent initiation for each contact, there is no clear answer to the "how many" question.

    They need some clarification.
     
    MW1CFN and WD8ED like this.
  2. K1VSK

    K1VSK Ham Member QRZ Page

    “Each claimed contact” seems clear but then that’s why all sporting competition have Marshall’s, rules officials, referees, judges, etc... because we all know everyone is honest:cool:
     
    K4AGO likes this.
  3. KK5JY

    KK5JY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    It says that each claimed contact has to be initiated, but it doesn't limit each initiation to a single claimed contact.

    In other words, the proposed rule change -- as quoted by the OP -- doesn't have a one-to-one relationship between contacts and acts of initiation.

    It's a subtle distinction, but as a result, I would have no problem running a so-called "robot" that initiated numerous contacts from a single "go" command from the operator, under such a rule. Since I did initiate the process, and all contacts resulted from that single initiation, all of the resulting contacts comply with the letter of the rule.

    That said, I doubt the OP's quote is the final word -- they'll probably improve the text before incorporating it into their catch-all rules.
     
    K3XR likes this.
  4. W3WN

    W3WN Ham Member QRZ Page

    Technically, you’re splitting hairs.

    Even so, I’ve seen some of the pseudo-lawyers use hair-splitting like this as an excuse to violate the rules, even though they clearly knew what the intention of the rules are. In short, if it’s not explicitly prohibited, it is implicitly allowed.

    So let’s hope that the wording is cleared up to make the intention not only clear, but to avoid any more hair splitting.
     
    K4AGO and WQ4G like this.
  5. KK5JY

    KK5JY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I'm just pointing out how the wording provided was deficient. That's how unclear language gets improved.
    That's the real issue here.
     
    WN1MB likes this.
  6. N2EY

    N2EY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Honor system, like most other things in contests.

    What's to prevent someone from running high power and claiming QRP?

    What's to prevent someone from claiming single-op unassisted, yet using various spotting networks?

    What's to prevent someone from all sorts of other cheating?

    The honor system.
     
    KE5OFJ, K4AGO, MW1CFN and 2 others like this.
  7. KC3RN

    KC3RN Ham Member QRZ Page

    But FT-4 is, and it's got an automatic "search & pounce" function. However, the S&P function only works one time. Once you've made a contact, everything "goes dark", and you have to initiate the function again.
     
    K4AGO likes this.
  8. ND6M

    ND6M Ham Member QRZ Page

    Actually, it uses the phrase "the contact..."
    "The Contact" is by definition: singular.

    must include contemporaneous direct initiation by the operator on both sides of the contact.
     
    K4AGO, WQ4G and KP4SX like this.
  9. AG6QR

    AG6QR Subscriber QRZ Page

    But the code for both FT4 and FT8 is open source. Anybody with some computer skill could tweak the UI a bit to automate the part where the current code requires a periodic mouse click and rebuild the code.

    There are even software packages available that will automate the clicking on buttons of existing programs, without needing to rebuild code from source. Software firms use this kind of tool to automate the testing of software they develop for customers, but the same tools could be used for any purposes.

    Once a computer is involved, it's not hard to get it to repeat a task endlessly.
     
  10. KP4SX

    KP4SX XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Sure, all that's true but the ARRL is attempting to curb bot operation in their sponsored contests. If people tweak/cheat...well...whatchagonnadoaboutit?
    Play by the rules, folks.
     
    K4AGO likes this.

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