New Digital Petition at the FCC -- RM-11831

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by K0IDT, Mar 31, 2019.

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  1. K0IDT

    K0IDT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Dirty names?? You have a serious reading comprehension problem if you don't even know what was in the definition you cited, "trying to undermine the opponent's arguments by personal attacks, through attacking their character or skill level, etc." Nothing about "dirty names".

    No Gordon, what you were trolling for was more information you could twist to suit your purposes. What you wanted was more ad hominem fuel for your fire by attacking my "skill level".
    Hey, I guess I forgot to add my academic background in the post where I detailed everything I hate. I dropped out of the Merry Muppet Academy For Gifted Students in the 3rd grade, actually got kicked out for eating crayons, I then went on
    to public Reform Skool where I attained a MS degree in car theft, also while serving my sentence did graduate work in security systems. I then went on to invent the internet. I can supply a detailed resume on request to any authorized law enforcement agency, or individual, who has a legitimate reason for asking.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  2. KA9Q

    KA9Q Ham Member QRZ Page

    I guess this explains why I keep hearing so much about NVIS (Near Vertical Incidence Skywave).
  3. KA9Q

    KA9Q Ham Member QRZ Page

    And that's exactly how you learn. To quote the late NA7NA, one of the smartest guys I've ever known, "If you haven't tested it, it doesn't work!" I have no idea how often I've said that to the high school and college ham club students I help mentor. Every time we have a failure (e.g., of a balloon flight) I begin by saying that successes are fun, that's why we do this stuff, but you learn far more from your failures.

    So to have a failure and not learn from it, well that's the worst of both worlds.

    I'm an EE, not an MD, but the laws of physics and math (and Murphy) are the same for everyone. Your description of how simple problems and misunderstandings can snowball into far more serious ones rings 100% true. You have my respect, especially for your efforts to engage with less, shall we say, constructively oriented persons.
  4. KA9Q

    KA9Q Ham Member QRZ Page

    Here's the math. If you have 5 possible ways to make something work, and each one has a chance of 40% of working, what is the chance that at least one of the five will work?

    Answer: 1 - (1-0.4)^5 = 92%. Not 100%, but a lot better than 40%, huh?

    A while back I did the calculation for allogenic stem cell matches: 1 - (1-0.25)^n. For me, n=2 (actually n=3 but one has already had cancer!) I'm hoping not to have to actually conduct the experiment.

    I don't expect too many of the others in this conversation to understand the point here, but I'm sure you do.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  5. KA9Q

    KA9Q Ham Member QRZ Page

    Here's a better analogy. You probably have nights when the only patients you see are chronic alcoholics and drug addicts. If they're not in terrible shape I presume you can't do much more than counsel them on recovery programs and the like. So by our friend's reasoning, all you do is enable addicts, and that's an inherent feature of a hospital emergency department...just like user-provided encryption is an inherent part of Winlink...
  6. KA9Q

    KA9Q Ham Member QRZ Page

    Nobody said that ham radio and only ham radio will save the world. Ham radio is simply one of several options for communications, and the more options you have the greater the chance that at least one of them will work in an emergency. And as Gordon explained with real-world examples, a lack of timely communications can snowball into far more serious problems for real human beings who didn't have the choice not to be stuck in their situation.

    Of course, if you think ragchewing, contesting and DXing are more important than helping to save lives in a disaster, there's not much more I can say to you except to get some empathy for other human beings. I don't think you're contributing much to this discussion, but that's just my personal opinion.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
    N9LYA likes this.
  7. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    Everyone gets to live their life how they please. If your life is defined by what you HATE, that is sad. I doubt that is really true. At least I hope not. However in many of these discussions you have projected evil onto the actions of others. Whatever! I learned a great deal from you!

    KA9Q is a world-class expert with a long career in these areas. Most of us would be delighted and blessed to have him take of his time left on earth and lecture us with his vast realm of knowledge. Take advantage of the opportunities he is offering here-- you are getting a gift that very few are offered. You don't have to agree with him on all points to learn from him. Pushing his expertise away will not benefit you.
  8. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yes, NVIS is the ticket for reachng the state EOC in most states. But we're having a real problem at NIGHT. Here in Florida you can go to the Eglin air force base radio-ionosonde and get up to the 15-minute data on the critical frequency. I'm not a huge expert on this, but it is dropping to 3 MHz (not 3.5 -- 3!) in many sections of the county during the winter at night. People in the same state can't even hear each other. They have to have a net control IN ANOTHER STATE!

    My test for this is WD4SEN in Middleburg, 85 miles away from me. Sometimes I can hit him (digitally) sometimes I can't. He is too far for ground wave, but at many times too close for skip -- the "skip zone". And when the critical frequency drops to 3 MHz.....the only way to reach him is on 160 meters....but he doesn't have a signal there.

    Your quote about actual testing, rather than assumptions is a good one. I thought it would be easy to connect from Newberry to our EOC. Boy did *I* get a lesson! Topology, path link budget, terrain -- we have multiple RIDGES that run parallel in our region right around a major highway and the EOC is about 100 feet LOWER (or more) than those ridges -- and the Newberry area is also about 100 feet lower. Real touugh to beat. You can work around it by choosing your frequency for various times of the day -- but my point is that if you must maintain communications around the clock, on a defined can actually be quite difficult. That's why I suggested that my local EC ( a representatively well trained individual whom I helped get his Extra ) would only have a 5% chance of succeeding for a 24-hour stretch. He might make it 92% of the time....but not all the time. In reality, without INFRASTRUCTURE I doubt he will make it period. We did some testing a few weeks back to try and quantify the issues and it was not encouraging. Further, the EOC has a nearly 30dB NOISE PENALTY that we have studied at some length now on 80 meters...and still some on 40 meters. We worked very hard to try and alleviate that, but we face political issues.

    Only TWICE have I ever managed to make a (direct, no infrastructure) contact with our State EOC from the Alachua County EOC -- and I have multiple non-amateur frequencies at my disposal, and 24 availability of an automated system there to respond to me. Thankfully the authorities have a zillion comms systems and the simple HF radio systems will likely never be needed, or we could find someone to relay or simply use automated relays -- but it is humbling to try and show what "ham radio can do" and then find can't.
  9. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    in post 1929 you denied having mocked anything and continued your views...
    "I didn't mock anything, I just mentioned it along with several others to shed light on your flair for drama. Get over it. You're acting like a butt hurt teenager."

    Unfortunately, those aren't the facts.

    In post 1876 I described what was reported by an eye-witness amateur who served a crowded shelter post Hurricane Michael, where running water was not available for multiple days, and I described a couple of GI ilnesses and then alluded to a serious illness for which we vaccinate incoming military because of what it can do to a barracks of soldiers, pointing out the risk to those shelter residents, who were quite separated from possible medical care. Estimates of the world-wide death rate from cholera are 21K to 143K (mortality >= 3% ) (Ref: That might have been 9 persons. The disease I alluded to was meningicoccal meningitis, or even worse, meningococcemia -- which has a mortality of 40-80%. (Ref: I've treated several cases of meningitis (not all from meningicoccus, there are other causes) and I've taken care of very unfortunate individuals who have had the even more devastating meningcoccemia (that's hard to spell!) There's a vaccine -- and all military recruits i belive get it! (see: )

    Incredibly, in post 1877 you responded with mockery:
    "That is about the biggest load of BS I have ever heard. You should go write melodramas for TV, cause it sounds like you have watched Outbreak way too many times. You certainly don't want any unvaccinated people eating a bunch of day old doughnuts and then going in the woods."

    The REASON they didn't have running water was a combination of chaos and communications errors. There were PLENTY of generators not far from them that could have given them running water. The communications didn't make that happen.

    In post 1881 I tried to explain to you the types of diseases you were mocking, and I even explained to you that I'd just been to a lecture by an expert in those kinds of fields. In post 1883 I tried to explain to my real-world experience with immunocompromised persons and how vulnerable they are -- and in any large grouping of people today you have several who are immunocompromised from cancer, or other issues they are dealing with.

    In post 1885 you responded with more derision --
    "So??? What exactly does any of that have to do with the issue at hand?" -- even tho the relationship to the discussion at hand -- the importance of making communications WORK -- was clear.

    In post 1889 I offered more explanations of why that could have been a disaster at that shelter...

    In post 1890 you responded with incredible incharity/callousness (I'm not sure exactly which) to their situation:

    "Had they not been there in the first place they would not have been exposed to any risk. "

    So mocked risks and people who were in really bad straits.

    Now as to "getting a life" since you have made your psychiatric diagnosis -- i see you restore old cars, and fly model airplanes.....perhaps you can enlighten us with all the stuff that you're an expert at! You apparently believe that all I do is amateur radio...... so you might as well tell us more about yourself!

  10. K0IDT

    K0IDT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Gordon, you really don't get it do you? Be happy in your world, we're done.
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