What systems? What groups? If you're referring to amateur radio it's been a concern expressed, and ignored, by respondents to an ARRL survey, produced in 1992, for the first ARRL Digital Committee. Here's the link to it again http://www.redwaveradio.com/10_2219707392a36152_1.htm Pactor 4, one guy, with 20 man-years of support, 3 years. Turn down the volume Gordon, breathe, think, type, unless you're going for a lock or another timeout. Oh, go back to post #1807, see if you can use anything in there, and I must apologize in advance because I left out that I also hate emcomm.