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National society acts over Smart Meter interference

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by G4TUT/SK2022, Feb 20, 2020.

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  1. G4TUT/SK2022

    G4TUT/SK2022 Ham Member QRZ Page

    National society acts over Smart Meter interference

    IARU Region 2 reports in Saint Kitts amateur radio operators are still battling with the RF Interference, noise and frequency jamming caused by the smart meters of the electric company

    The Saint Kitts Nevis Anguilla Amateur Radio Society (SKNAARS) took the RF interference complaint to the telecommunications regulator NTRC who issued a “cease and desist” order to the electric company, effective October 7, 2019. Today makes four months since that order was issued, and a number of stations are still experiencing RF interference and noise on 40-meter and 80-meter radio frequencies.

    The SKNAARS new executive will be meeting with the NTRC in the next few weeks to discuss this RF noise issue and other outstanding matters. SKNAARS wishes to thank IARU for its assistance in helping to resolve this RF interference matter affecting the amateur radio fraternity in Saint Kitts. The island of Nevis does not have a smart meter system.

    Read the full story at
    https://www.iaru-r2.org/en/sknaars-annual-general-meeting/

    http://www.southgatearc.org/news/20...ociety-acts-over-smart-meter-interference.htm

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    VE3EEI, N0TZU, KA0HCP and 2 others like this.
  2. VE3GZB

    VE3GZB Ham Member QRZ Page

    The deluge of QRM caused by cheap Chinese-made wall warts powering many home electronics must surely outweigh QRM caused by smart meters.
     
    KX4BW, K3RW, K4XJ and 3 others like this.
  3. K0UO

    K0UO Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    I have tested Smart meter in the US and they were are all very clean.
     
    N7BKV likes this.
  4. AI5DH

    AI5DH Ham Member

    Laughable, smart meters use 900 Mhz.
     
    AD0JA, NK2U and K0UO like this.
  5. N7BKV

    N7BKV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Maybe the electric company on St Kitts got a "deal" on smart meters? Made by a Chinese wall wart manufacturer. Maybe.
     
    N0TZU, K0UO and N1GKE like this.
  6. W6RAD

    W6RAD Ham Member QRZ Page

    We have had one for almost a year now, no problems here.
    Pacific Power, Coquille, OR
     
    K0UO likes this.
  7. AI5DH

    AI5DH Ham Member

    RFI would be the least of my concerns with regards to Smart Meters, especially if you know what the data is used for. Just another layer of your privacy gone and you don't even know it happened. Sign up for some features, and you surrender some control of your life and allow a machine to control you.
     
    K0TWA, K4EIA, WN1MB and 1 other person like this.
  8. KX4QC

    KX4QC Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    <rant>Privacy? Why do you need privacy?
    If you don't have something to say, why do you need free speech?</rant>

    Sensibly, I think there needs to be much more disclosure about data gathering and use. We just bought an LG home appliance, and were dismayed that the warranty registration asked for many pages of information about our private lives -age, marital status, income, other purchases, interests..... We were so miffed that we put a line through most of the questions. I suspect that this rebellion cost us the warranty, but we feel safer that way.
    Just as with other challenges to our pursuit of freedom and happiness, challenges to privacy are no different: If we see something, we must say something. Otherwise there's not much use complaining after the fact?
    BTW, our smart meter is just verified as very quiet, and works well for us.
     
    KD8DWO likes this.
  9. K3FHP

    K3FHP XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Not all, check the FCC ID on the device for the freq range.
    Most of the RFI I hear is not from the meters directly but on the overhead lines themselves on the AM radio band.

    Granted I am in a ralatively low signal area but there is noise(read data signals) only as I go under the lines in question.
     
    W7SJP likes this.
  10. KD8CIV

    KD8CIV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Wonder what will happen when the band conditions improve and all those little wall warts transmissions start going farther? Seems that now is the time to try to crack down on that sort of thing, instead of waiting 11 years and finding out the problem is unsolvable.
     
    W7SJP and KD2KOS like this.
  11. AI5DH

    AI5DH Ham Member

    What you hear on power Transmission Lines is not Smart Meter data, rather telemetry between sub-stations called Relay or Transfer Trip Carrier. It is a DSB carrier operating at less than 1 Mhz. Voice on one side band and telemetry on the other. Smart Meters in the USA use the older 3G CDMA and GSM UHF extending the shelf life of 3G until the FCC lets the carriers turn it off and replace with 5G . Power Line Carriers just do not have the bandwidth required, nor the interface equipment.

    If utilities could economically transform their distribution network to transport company and customer data at some usable speed, they would do it in a heartbeat. Some models have came and gone. Now one thing some are doing in rural and new build areas is run fiber contained in the Static Neutral Line. With Fiber, they can compete with CATV and actually do quite a bit more better.
     
    K3RW likes this.
  12. W5JON

    W5JON Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Hi,

    You are correct. HOWEVER the "Concentrators" made by Corinex BPL (Canada), that the Smart Meters sent their readings to, continuously send those reading back to the "Main Office" via BPL on 2 to 12Mhz, with an S9+20 data QRM totally wiping out 80 - 30 Meters. Andy N2NT (V47T) and I W5JON (V47JA) last year filed formal complains with the ST Kitts NTRC (their FCC), and on October 7, 2019 the NTRC issued a "Cease and Desist Order" against St Kitts Electricity Company (SKELEC) to "immediately" shut down ALL the Concentrators. Two weeks later SKELEC shut down the local Concentrators near Andy and I, so we have been free of any BPL QRM since then. But they have been stalling everywhere else on St Kitts. So it is far from a "Laughable" situation for the rest of the Hams on St Kitts. John V47JA

    They are referring to Andy and I where they wrote:
    "As a point of interest, amateur radio operators from the USA visited Saint Kitts for several contests in the month following the “Cease and Desist” order issued by the NTRC. These operations were able to score highly, and even win their category because their location was totally noise free. Apparently, the RF interference problem no longer exists in those locations used by the contesters. Unfortunately, whatever RF interference solution was applied has not yet migrated to the active local amateur radio operators on the island of Saint Kitts."
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
    N0TZU likes this.
  13. N0TZU

    N0TZU Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    How refreshing that the authorities there took the amateur noise complaints seriously and told the utility to stop their BPL data transfers. I hope you get a complete resolution of the noise soon.

    This raises a question in my mind, was BPL also being used for end customer internet? If so, is this also covered by the order?
     
  14. W5JON

    W5JON Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Hi,

    There are two cable/satellite TV and IP's on St Kitts, both provided their services are via hard wire cable hookups, same with the Telephone Company.
    The BPL is strictly used by SKELEC to send the Smart Meter data, and turning on/off customers power, etc., the BPL is used by no one else.
    What really ticked off the NTRC, neither SKELEC, or Corinex, or the local installer ever requested authorization from the NTRC. for the BPL .... a very BIG NO-NO on St Kitts. After the Radio Club SKNAARS, Andy and I filed our complaints, the NTRC told SKELEC the had to get off of the 2-12Mhz HF and the NTRC would only "Authorize" either VHF or UHF frequencies. Corinex (Canada) replied SKELEC purchased a system that can only operated on HF and can not be converted to VHF or UHF. SKELEC will be in a world of hurt, as the NTRC (ECTEL) has the law and the muscle on their side. And SKELEC defying and stalling on the "Cease and Desist Order" is not helping them at the NTRC/ECTEL. John V47JA
     
    W2CHZ and N0TZU like this.
  15. AI5DH

    AI5DH Ham Member

    Is the equivalent of a Bluff in a poker game.. It carries no legal judgement, weight, or penalty, just a legal threat someone paid a lawyer to write. The question is who has the money to fight.I hope they fold and cave in. I suspect they will call the Bluff knowing the other party has no funds to fight.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020

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