National Emergency + Preppers + Baofengs = ?

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by WE4B, Mar 16, 2020.

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  1. K0UO

    K0UO Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    I guess this is what it's came to!
    Since the Preppers have all the rolls of toilet paper@!!

    Screenshot_20200320-124016_Gmail.jpg
     
    KA2CZU, K3XR and W9RAC like this.
  2. W9RAC

    W9RAC Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Did not realize they had 30m on there?
     
  3. K3XR

    K3XR Ham Member QRZ Page

    Good one!!

    Sure beats undercoating and pinstripes.
     
    K0UO likes this.
  4. KB7NRN

    KB7NRN Ham Member QRZ Page

    [​IMG]
     
    WE4E, WN1MB, NL7W and 4 others like this.
  5. KB8VUL

    KB8VUL Ham Member QRZ Page

    I will toss my two cents in for whatever it's actually worth... and two cents is probably paying too much.

    I have come to realize, or understand that the premise of the law about hams being able to transmit for life safety anywhere they have the ability to does NOT mean keying up on the local cop repeater with their modded ham radio and asking for help. What it was meant to mean was if a NOVICE had a 2 meter radio, he could get on the 2 meter repeater (remember that a NOVICE had no privilege on VHF ) and ask for help for life safety. Or could use voice communication on bands that he only had CW privilege on to do the same. Yes, we can use commercial radios for ham bands. But you can't go buy a ham radio, take it out of the box and it transmit on public safety frequencies. And that has LONG been the case. With the Baofeng radios, I know it will, but a Baofeng radio is neither type accepted, and yes, commercial ham radios are type accepted, they DO have a valid FCC ID. I just checked my TH-G71. It's really there. And here's the MAIN difference between commercial radios and ham radios. THE VFO. A commercial radio can NOT have a VFO. Says so in part 90. A ham radio CAN have a VFO, but must be limited in it's ability to transmit to ONLY the ham bands. I know there is FCC ID number on a Baofeng. But it's not a real FCC number. Go look it up. The number is for a radio that was made when wideband was still ok on commercial frequencies. And you had to program the VFO OFF in order for that radio to be legal. After Jan 1 2013, they were no longer legal. And the type acceptance was canceled because it was for a wide band only radio. They (Baofeng) just keep sticking the number on all their radios but, again, it's NOT a valid number.

    Anyway, the rule was never meant to allow hams to talk on the cop repeater.
    That's my take. My guess is that's how the FCC would explain it as well.
     
  6. W5GX

    W5GX Ham Member QRZ Page

    I may have to pay you for my opinion. :p

    I would go back to 97.403 (bold mine):

    Section 97 prescribes the frequencies available to an amateur radio station. It would follow that frequency allocations (even including public service) shall not prevent protecting life/property.

    Again, I would only use this in accordance with the remainder of this section, that no other normal systems are available.

    I don't know if FCC has issued an opinion on this.
     
    AF7TS likes this.
  7. AF7TS

    AF7TS Ham Member QRZ Page

    And this is the _key_ to understanding the rule. 97.403 is an embodiment of the 'necessity defense'.

    If the only way to save someone's life is to tune your cheap radio to a local dispatch frequency, then you do it. 97.403 simply makes that explicit.

    But it had better have actually been necessary to break the rules. Note: necessary does not mean 'physically impossible to do anything else'; necessary means 'you can convince a judge (or jury) that it was the most prudent course of action.'.

    IMHO The further you stray from 'normal' allowed communications, the better your reasoning must be. So someone straying out of their normal amateur privileges to ask for help on an amateur frequency will be less questioned then an amateur calling on a public safety dispatch frequency. (IMHO it would he hellishly unlikely that the latter would be the most prudent course of action if you happened to have the equipment to implement it.)

    If we reach the point where cell phones and land lines have collapsed, then a 'prepper' using amateur frequencies without a license to actually save a life would probably be accepted without question.

    But back to the original point; the declaration of a state of emergency in no way makes it necessary for people without licenses to suddenly start using their Boefengs on whatever frequency they wish.

    -Jon
     
    W5GX and AG6QR like this.
  8. ND5Y

    ND5Y Ham Member QRZ Page

    Supposedly they have. People have posted emails allegedly from FCC officials stating that Part 97 only applies to amateur radio frequencies.
     
    W5GX likes this.
  9. W2JKT

    W2JKT Ham Member QRZ Page

    The key is in "no provision of these rules," referring to Part 97. I would wager a plenty that there are plenty of other rules, outside of Part 97, that would prohibit you using public safety frequencies, even in an emergency (though one must obviously way the practical aspect of whether it would actually be prosecuted).
     
  10. ND5Y

    ND5Y Ham Member QRZ Page

    PART 2--FREQUENCY ALLOCATIONS AND RADIO TREATY MATTERS; GENERAL RULES
    AND REGULATIONS

    Sec. 2.405 Operation during emergency.
    The licensee of any station (except amateur, standard broadcast, FM
    broadcast, noncommercial educational FM broadcast, or television
    broadcast) may, during a period of emergency in which normal
    communication facilities are disrupted as a result of hurricane, flood,
    earthquake, or similar disaster, utilize such station for emergency
    communication service in communicating in a manner other than that
    specified in the instrument of authorization: Provided:

    (a) That as soon as possible after the beginning of such emergency
    use, notice be sent to the Commission at Washington, D.C., and to the
    Engineer in Charge of the district in which the station is located,
    stating the nature of the emergency and the use to which the station is
    being put, and
    (b) That the emergency use of the station shall be discontinued as
    soon as substantially normal communication facilities are again
    available, and
    (c) That the Commission at Washington, D.C., and the Engineer in
    Charge shall be notified immediately when such special use of the
    station is terminated: Provided further,
    (d) That in no event shall any station engage in emergency
    transmission on frequencies other than
    , or with power
    in excess of, that specified in the instrument of authorization or as
    otherwise expressly provided by the Commission, or by law: And provided
    further,
    (e) That any such emergency communication undertaken under this
    section shall terminate upon order of the Commission.
    Note: Part 73 of this chapter contains provisions governing
    emergency operation of standard, FM, noncommercial educational FM, and
    television broadcast stations. Part 97 of this chapter contains such
    provisions for amateur stations.


    PART 80--STATIONS IN THE MARITIME SERVICES
    Sec. 80.47 Operation during emergency.
    A station may be used for emergency communications when normal
    communication facilities are disrupted. The Commission may order
    the discontinuance of any such emergency communication service.
    Sec. 80.311 Authority for distress transmission.
    A mobile station in distress may use any means at its disposal to
    attract attention, make known its position, and obtain help.
    A distress
    call and message, however, must be transmitted only on the authority of
    the master or person responsible for the mobile station. No person shall
    knowingly transmit, or cause to be transmitted, any false or fraudulent
    signal of distress or related communication.

    PART 87--AVIATION SERVICES
    Sec. 87.43 Operation during emergency.
    A station may be used for emergency communications in a manner other
    than that specified in the station license or in the operating rules

    when normal communication facilities are disrupted. The Commission may
    order the discontinuance f any such emergency service.
    Sec. 87.397 Emergency operations.
    (a) The licensee of any land station in the Aviation services,
    during a local emergency involving the safety of life and property may
    communicate in a manner other than that specified in the license
    (See
    Sec. 87.395). Such emergency operations may include operation at other
    locations or with equipment not specified in the license or by
    unlicensed personnel provided that:
    (1) Such operations are under the control and supervision of the
    station licensee,
    (2) The emergency use is discontinued as soon as practicable upon
    termination of the emergency,
    (3) In no event shall any station transmit on frequencies other than
    or with power in excess of that specified in the license,
    (4) The details of the emergency must be retained with the station
    license, and
    (5) At a controlled airport these communications must be coordinated
    with the FAA.
    (b) The unicom frequencies listed in subpart G may also be used for
    communications with private aircraft engaged in organized civil defense
    activities in preparation for, during an enemy attack or immediately
    after an enemy attack. When used for these purposes, unicoms may be
    moved from place to place or operated at unspecified locations, except
    at landing areas served by other unicoms or control towers.
    (c) In any case in which a license for unattended operation has been
    granted, the Commission may at any time, for national defense, modify
    the license.

    PART 90--PRIVATE LAND MOBILE RADIO SERVICES
    Sec. 90.407 Emergency communications.
    The licensee of any station authorized under this part may, during a
    period of emergency in which the normal communication facilities are
    disrupted as a result of hurricane, flood, earthquake or similar
    disaster, utilize such station for emergency communications in a manner
    other than that specified in the station authorization or in the rules
    and regulations governing the operation of such stations.
    The Commission
    may at any time order the discontinuance of such special use of the
    authorized facilities.

    PART 101--FIXED MICROWAVE SERVICES
    Sec. 101.205 Operation during emergency.
    The licensee of any station in these services may, during a period of
    emergency in which normal communication facilities are disrupted as a
    result of hurricane, flood, earthquake, or similar disaster, utilize
    such station for emergency communication service in a manner other than
    that specified in the instrument of authorization: Provided:

    (a) That as soon as possible after the beginning of such emergency use,
    notice be sent to the Commission stating the nature of the emergency
    and the use to which the station is being put;
    (b) That the emergency use of the station must be discontinued as soon
    as substantially normal communication facilities are again available;
    (c) That the Commission must be notified immediately when such special
    use of the station is terminated;
    (d) That, in no event, will any station engage in emergency transmission
    on frequencies other than
    , or with power in excess of, that specified in
    the instrument of authorization
    or as otherwise expressly provided by
    the Commission, or by law; and
    (e) That the Commission may, at any time, order the discontinuance of
    any such emergency communication.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
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