Morse Codes trumps SMS in head to head combat

I´m not doubting that hf can have it´s use, I´m just curius how likely it is to have the need to cover a whole state or several states.
My guess that that is only needed when a major huricane makes landfall and even then most of the work is done on a local scale.
What I´m saying is that it is nice that you can get a message out of the state but that message first has to get to you and messages have to be moved localy.
I hope everyone knows that moving local trafic is what vhf and uhf is best at, you could try it on 80 meters using nvis setups but from all the data I have seen it works less reliable then vhf and uhf.

as for the area, have a look at the cia website it is all there

 

have you ever been to this country ?

if not, it would be hard for you to visualize how sparsely populated some parts are.

the single largest area in the continental 48 states where it is possible to get more than 5 miles(8.05 kilometers) from a road is in the arrowhead area of minnesota !

i live in an unorganized( no local government structure) township where 21 of the 36 square miles have neither a house or a road in them.

the 41,526 square kilometers of your country converts to 16,033 square miles.

your country is only 2.6 times larger than the county i live in and has a population of 16 million people

minnesota has a total population of about 4.9 million and the largest portion of that is in the 10 country metro area around st. paul and minneapolis .

st louis county, where i live, is 6225 square miles and has a total population of about 200,000 people !

well over half of the population is within 15 miles of the city of duluth !

while it is possible to cover most european counties via vhf/uhf simplex, it just can't be done for most of the western part of the united states.

this is a lot of area to try to cover with short range, line of sight radio !

 

kc0nbw:
" the single largest area in the continental 48 states where it is possible to get more than 5 miles(8.05 kilometers) from a road is in the arrowhead area of minnesota !"

Not to nitpick but my wife's aunt lived on a ranch in NW Oklahoma and SW Kansas where the driveway to the ranchhouse alone is more than 5 miles.  

I don't think people outside of this country understand just how sparsly populated some of it is - west Texas and areas of Montana have *lots* more of just about any critter you care to name than people.

When you have to worry about the curvature of the earth to determine if you can hit repeaters (rather than obstructions) you know you have a problem using VHF/UHF for emergency links.

tim ab0wr

 

Looks like the debate here is winding down, so before LXK starts popping in every couple of days and leaving a pot shot so he can convince himself he won, let me make a couple of comments.

1. Who won this debate? In my opinion nobody did because there was no exchange of information. LXK held to his NCI points like a crack adict on his last rock refusing to acknowledge the simplest of points for fear his little NCT world would crash around his ears. And being the warm sensitive guy I am, I dug my heels in as well.

2. What was proved in this debate? The obvious thing is that if someone like LXK has his head up and locked, there is little opportunity for common sense and compromise to work. He was the personfication of the NCI view. His goal is to remove telegrphy testing. He argued for 30 pages with someone who supports removal of telegraphy testing because my solution is a win-win compromise. What was proved is that the hard corps no coder does not want win-win unless both wins are for them.

3. Was anything new said? I believe there is potential in investigating both the reasons why people get into Amateur Radio and why they leave Amateur Radio. There is low hanging fruit to "save" from what the ARRL already knows about 15% of new amateurs never getting on the air. I think the info about frequent users of IMC being better operators deserves a formal study and report. I believe we now know that a majority of young people probably could care less about Amateur Radio. We now know that IMC is not dead as a technology mode with SSCW, etc. We know that modes that young people want based on marketing research are modes that won't have needed bandwidth on HF. We know that with Japan's decision the chances of a majority of countries dropping IMC rests with us. Info on those that have already dropped the requirement is nice to know but irrelevent.

4. Any new info on people involved? I believe that we now should look at info related to NCI and conflicts of interest with anti-amateur activity. We need to guard NCTs from being used by these people where it happens.

5. What about the FCC? It is unknown what they will do. If they are logical and look at the facts, they will see a compromise is both easiest and most effective. Alot depends on our comments to the NPRM whatever it says. To the extent the FCC is willing to listen to new info since 98-143 will make the difference.

6. What is the worst case scenario? Turning NCTs loose on HF with a General upgrade they did not earn by at least a written test. If I need to explain this to you, you'll never get it.

7. What is the best scenario? Putting NCTs on HF in segmented band areas where the experiment can be monitored. All the honest complaints about IMC barring new applicants would be removed. The only difference between a NCT on HF and a General that passed elemet 1 would be more spectrum available. Surely an IMC skill test of 5wpm is not an imposition for more spectrum, but their bands would be a reasonable accomodation for NCTs.

I enjoy debates and have no problem continuing with this one provided LXK can come up with something other than his opinion or NCI dogma. Otherwise, LXK, you have the last word. If it isn't really goofy, I'll let it alone.

 

a ''road'' can be defined as any passageway maintained for the use of vehicles.
in the case you present, the driveway is a road.

another thing of interest, roads such as the gunflint trail and the echo trail  in minnesota are not plowed in the wintertime.

there are no powerlines running along the ''trail'' roads
either.

look at a detailed map of northeastern minnesota, particularly the area in and around the boundary waters canoe area

the rest of minnesota is all prairie and it is crisscrossed with section roads.

the arrowhead of minnesota also  has far more critters than people

i can go deer hunting in my own yard

deer,bear and other beasties are a daily sight in the arrowhead, i can even go out at night and howl like a wolf and get an answer  from a pack more often than not !

 

Chairly,
Not at all a bad closing statement, even I can life with it and agree for 99% with it, that is close enough as 100% is an utopia