Missing Vessel reported on the Maritime Service Net on 20 meters

It is interesting it do not say "operator" but "station".
From before Kati got her licence, I had a written script for her next to the radio, in case she heard a distress call, (lot of 4x4 activity in our area and poor cell coverage), as I usually left the 2m radio on the repeaters and with volume up when I worked in weekends.
She never had to use it, however she enjoyed listening to the yapping on the radio, and she still listen 99.99 of the time.

 

I think the FCC uses "Operator" and "Station" synonymy.

I like that story about Kati. For me that is what amateur radio is about. Keep your ears open to help and be willing to do so, even if the only help somebody needs is directions to Chinese food, and have fun playing radio. It is also good that you have traffic on your repeaters. Ours are silent unless the sky clouds up and it looks like it might sprinkle....all the storm chasers jump on the repeater when that happens.

 

When the FCC rules say "good engineering and good amateur practice", it's a general rule (sort of a catch-all like the rule against conduct unbecoming in the military) but it's still not just a matter of arbitrary opinion. If you want to do it differently than international agreements and years of custom, you should have some reasonable and somewhat convincing argument for why your way is better than the old way. That's how the art of radio engineering and operation will advance. Since causing trouble for this activity center gets in the way of potential emergency traffic as well as legal third-party non-emergency traffic in the interest of good will and charity (both cutting at two of the main reasons for the existence of amateur radio allocations) that argument should be at least as good as why you want to hold ragchews on the APRS frequency, cover the 15 meter band with AM clock signals, hold contests on the WARC bands, etc.

Are you being obtuse here, or are you having linguistic and typographic issues? The point of an activity center is that it's the place where you start operating that type of traffic or mode in the band, but if the exact frequency can't be used due to interference, or there's already that same type of traffic there (let's say, two emergencies going on at once), you operate as close as possible to the center frequency, up or down.

Go back and read your own advice - your ideal situation was that the pleasure craft is outfitted as a commercial GMDSS vessel. An Iridium phone is not part of that (yet).

I would prefer to do as you say and have both sat and mf/hf, but the requirement for duplication is also met just by having two Inmarsat stations and two VHF stations.

Precisely my point. I agree with you to the point that standards for pleasure craft should be higher than they are today, but they should not be exactly the same as for large vessels. It's a bit like how all vessels must have lanterns, but it doesn't make sense to outfit a dinghy with the lanterns of a super tanker, and for a tiny rowing boat a flashlight is enough.

The last satellite phone I saw looked more flimsy than that, and you should of course choose a tough and watertight model for marine use, but even if it's tough it's not indestructible or impossible to lose or malfunction. And if you lose your Iridium phone in the sea, but your amateur radio is safely stowed below decks - well there your are "depending" on amateur radio.

Hopefully you have a functioning EPIRB, but in some kinds of emergencies it could be even more essential to achieve communications than just starting the SAR effort. For example, if your sailing companion is sick or injured and you need medical advice over the radio.

Another problem with the non-GMDSS satellite phone solution is that you don't have a way to get navigation and weather warnings, or be alerted to vessels in distress nearby, both of which you can get with an MF/HF SSB radio or amateur radio. (Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to have both rather than one)

It might be more likely than you think - just by a single component failure you could be stuck with amateur radio. It might not be your own gear's fault. It's been mentioned already that some people in sea area A1 failed to reach anyone on marine VHF in South America but managed to get through on amateur radio. Last week, some parts of the Norwegian coast lost VHF coast station coverage due to a storm.
Thus there's a need to have an approximate calling frequency. And the legal third party traffic can be the second reason for having this traffic net.

The net probably can't sue for damages if they refuse to move, but there are plenty of reasons for why the net should politely ask them to move:
- Good amateur practice, as is asked for in both international agreements and FCC rules
- Less inconvenience overall
- Legal third-party traffic
- Emergency traffic
- The people involved in the QSO have less risk of having to deal with traffic interrupting their QSO
- More listeners and potential relays, helping with propagation
- Being a gentle(wo)man

Compare to a couple of guys using a repeater when they could have been using simplex - you probably can't sue them either, but they should move off to simplex when somebody who needs the repeater wants to use it.
It might not be illegal to swear and hurl abuse at people on the air either, but you shouldn't do it just because you can.

Somehow Norway gets by with two pages of amateur radio regulations, half of which is the band plan, while the US needs over thirty pages. Maybe it's because our rules require us to be familiar with both international rules and procedures, and operating technique, so the rules act more by reference to good practice than by spelling out all the bad things you shouldn't do. It's like, we don't need stickers on our electronics products telling us that eating them might elevate your body's lead content.

 

That provision deals with communications that would not normally be permitted on the amateur bands, like providing assistance to a sinking commercial ship that was operating outside the allocated bands.

Essential communications needs are already authorized under 97.111. The section you quoted only come into play if the communications would not normally be permitted by the existing rules.

Joe

 

US is at least 30 times bigger than Norway....

 

Dog gone thing messed up, and I refuse to type all that again. More than a half hour of research shot in the .....

 

Wrong.. This passage is most certainly open to interpretation. There is nothing really arbitrary about the various interpretations. Yours is different than mine but both are based on
our own understanding of what is correct.. Nothing arbitrary there. I just happen to believe that you are completely wrong.

Since this "activity center" is not the only, not even the best means of passing distress traffic, it loses any status it has for exclusive use of the frequency. There are simply too many
options that better serve disaster communications. Your analogies of APRS etcjust dont wash.. It's apples and oranges.. Your definition of activity center is not the same as mine.
Yours gives this frequency almost exclusive use of that frequency.. this may be the fcase in Norway.. lIt is not the case int the Unitd States. The FCC has never ruled in the behalf of
of the mmsn or any other net that has saught protection in this regard. You cannot compare your regulations or those of europe with those of the us..
There is no need for a convincing argument for the use of that frequency by casual users. It is simply allowed by law. There needs to be a convincing argument for some net's
exclusive use of that frequency because..... that would be contrary to law. The use of 14.3 has nothing to do with good engineering or amateur practices.. escept perhaps to you.,

If a boater is in danger there generally are many hams on various bands that can hear him. I would guess that most of them have access to a telephone. I would venture that
should he announce his emergency any ham that could hear him would respond. It would then be a simple matter to make the necessary phone calls to get him help. There is
no real need to have a dedicate3d frequency for that.

As to my equipmen6 suggest5ions.. Let's start from scratch. Lets even assume that I have taken some of your input in. Here is what I would take, if I were to
consider cruising offshore.; An Iridium phone and two spare batteries, with a seperate charger for each battery (solar and ac),
A GMDSS console that would include the mf/hf selcal rig, the mf/hf scanner, and the mf/hf interface for distress messages.
An inmarsat c system if they are still active
An EPIRB
A SART
a marine vhf which would also include the apropriate selcal functions
there is a vhf id system which would be nice to have as well.. If your boat has radar the information can be transcribed to
your radar display so you could id boats and ships within range.

I would attend classes required to get the gmdss licenses that merchant ships bridge staff are required to have.

If there was still a dollar or two left in my communications budget, I would have a ham station aboard.. Mostly for entertainment.

That should take care of most of your arguments about what I think a cruiser should carry to ensure his emergency is well handled
communications wise.

I would hate to be in a position where I had to rely on amateur radio for my SAR communications. I would want to be speaking with professionals, directly.
This is best done with a GMDSS console and, of course the training to use it. You can attend classes in almost all of the major US ports.

Regarding good amateur practice; Good amateur practice requires, in my view, that hams give way to emergency calls. That pretty muchg covers it. 14.3 mhz
does not need to be kept clear for the possible use in the event of some sort of emergency. An exception would be if a government entity declared an emeergency
and that, for some reason, 14.3 was absolutely needed for a period of time, to help with that emergency. Then, it would be for a finite time period and its exclusive
use would be for that specific emergency. Under those conditions, I can see it.. I cant see any other conditions that would be workable.

I'm glad that Norway is able to get by with fewer laws and regulations. We had fewer hear as well when we were a country of Norways population. We have grown. Our
needs have grown. I supose,if some of us get tired of the regulations that govern us, we can move to a simpler society/country. I'll stick it out here for a while longer.

NI7I


the sat c unit would get me the weather and marine warnings for the area programmed
the mf/hf would also do this.

 

when a Sailor or vessel is lost or in distress in the Seas it is the "law of the sea" that any and all do what ever they can to assist. This is a custom as old as man has ventured out of sight of land upon the waters. In a perfect world all would be prepared with the best there is for any and all unenforceable emergencies. We live in Reality and humans will be humans hence we have the Coast Guard as do most countries. If a vessel is missing or adrift at SEA it is only prudent to get the message out by any and all means. Three days adrift without fresh water is in most cases a death sentence. As a HAM, former Coastie and Sailor I do not begrudge any effort to get eyes upon the water for souls in peril. Even the FCC acknowledges that in a legitimate emergency any feans of communication can be utilized to affect rescue. The Sea is an unforgiving mistress fret with all manner of mischief to befall man both Natural and Human mediated. So pull in the horns and keep good thoughts and wishes for those lost. It could be that you may find yourself in dire circumstances at some point and would grasp ant any manner of summoning assistance even outside your licensed frequencies. Not one of us can truthfully claim that they have not gone forth fully prepared or equipped. We are not perfect nor should we impose the expectation of perfection upon others.

 

As a person who has spent nearly all of his adult life at sea, I totally agree with what youj say. Nobody on this thread has said otherwise. Mostly, what has been
argued is one particular net's claim (I will qualify this ; under some net control ops) of exclusive ownership of the 14.3mhz. I have had further discussions about
how I (this is my personal opinion)beliieve a boater should equip his boat before cruising off shore. If a boater followed my suggestions, he, in all probability, could\
handle his emergency communications his self. No intervention by amateur radio needed. It would be a better scenario all around.

NI7I

 

It's not really us two individuals who decide this, but agreements, procedures and tradition, and if we want to break with it we should have clear and convincing reasons why. The rule is open to some interpretation, but not free interpretation - you can't just happen upon it.

I listed both emergency communications and legal non-emergency third-party traffic, and I didn't claim the frequency is *exclusive*, only that emergency and third-party traffic should have *priority* near that frequency, and that nets that facilitate that should be given consideration and the rest of us not getting in the way when they ask us to please move. (Remember I didn't say they should be suing people or jamming them.)

Also, as you know there are many frequencies in the marine SSB service which are also calling and emergency frequencies - one on each band plus a DSC frequency. Are you going to likewise argue that since alternative frequencies exist, you should start sending chandler orders on each one of frequencies since "it is not the only, not even the best means of passing distress traffic" in your own personal view? As a mariner you're supposed to know that there are many internationally recognized distress signals. And if through bad luck or idiocy a non-freebanded amateur radio is all you have to work with, and depending on propagation - well, amateur radio may turn out to be the best way to call for help in that situation. That makes a case for *priority*. Also, remember that it's not just for marine emergencies, but land-based ones as well.

It's quite close analogy actually. By your interpretation of the law, people should have hour-long ragchews on the APRS frequency, and if anyone asks them to please move it's ILLEGAL to do so. Shock and horror. (APRS is quite often used for emergency communications by the way.)

Yours and mine don't matter - what matters is what's been agreed upon.

You can compare them, but they're not the same. However, there are *international* treaties, agreements and procedures that underlie the national rules. This is especially needed on HF bands since they propagate globally. What I pointed out in response to another poster is that the Norwegian rules says things like "Amateur license holders have to know the international rules and procedures" while the US rules have to spell things out more in detail. The US rules do, however, have some catch-all rules, such as the one we're discussing.

Dependes what you mean by casual. Except for in an emergency, the law requires the users of the frequency to both hold an amateur radio license and to operate in accordance to good engineering and good amateur practice, among other things.

Strawman, as long as you're adressing this to me. I never said the frequency has an exclusive owner, and I made it clear in many posts that I was arguing that around that activity center, nets that facilitate emergency and third-party traffic should be given *priority*, and that if you use it for something else you should pause and listen for traffic. That's not exclusive use; that's giving priority to a type of activity near a center frequency.

Somehow I don't think I personally created years of tradition and international agreements about what good amateur practice is. That existed before I came into the hobby. As I said earlier what constitutes good practice will gradually change over time, but not willy nilly.

Breaking into a QSO is certainly an option, but on some of those emergency center frequencies you have people actively listening and pausing for traffic.

You're referring to AIS - with a big radio station of yours, a full class A AIS unit like that on a merchant vessel is what you'd have I suppose. Your Iridium phone might not yet be a GMDSS device, but it does give you more connectivity in polar regions where Inmarsat coverage is difficult or missing (sea area A4).

Personally, in a small sail boat I'd have a class E marine SSB transceiver like the IC-M801E instead of the full GMDSS console. I'd also want a class B AIS unit and radar with proximity alarm. EPIRB, SART, marine VHF with selcall. Laptop with Navtex receiver. Time and money beyond that I'd perhaps spend more wisely on better survival equipment?
I'm not sure about which satellite system I'd use, if any - depends on how far north and how far from shore I'd be going.

You already have this, right? I've checked in the UK, US, Australia and Norway, and IIRC all offer a license for non-SOLAS long-range cruisers. It covers the elements that you need for both sending distress and routine traffic in all sea areas without being intended for merchant vessel officers.

So would I. Having a proper marine station is much better than all those who only bring their cell phone or satellite phone on the boat. Amateur radio is just one more way to get a message out, as well as a means for friendship and entertainment.

You might not realize it, but you did say otherwise. You said that it was ILLEGAL for those nets who listen for emergency and third-party traffic to ask for other amateurs to give them priority on the emergency center frequencies. You also said it was unnecessary for people to use that frequency to listen for traffic. Perhaps you meant to agree with only part of K1GER's post, but then you shouldn't have quoted the whole thing.

By the way, what was the issue here anyway:

 

I'm not sure why third party traffic should have any sort of priority. That is not even something that is permitted by all jurisdictions, and when it is it often has limitations and restrictions. Certainly, that sort of thing should be done on a space available basis, NOT any sort of priority (unless of course it is an emergency).

Third party traffic, by definition, is not "ham to ham" communications, and that is what our bands are set up for.

Joe

 

I wouldn't give non-emergency traffic priority anywhere else on the band, but it would give the net participants traffic handling experience useful for an emergency, serve international good will, address welfare situations not yet turned into emergencies, and serve as an activity which often pauses and asks for check-ins in a directed fashion conducive to receiving emergency traffic. DX pileups, beacons, SSTV, or ragchews with 10 minute overs are not that conducive. Ragchews with short overs or directed nets are conducive to receiving emergency traffic.

Of course non-emergency third-party traffic should only be handled between countries that allow it - some countries allow third-party only to a certain list of countries while others allow none or all.

 

If non emergency third party traffic would not have a priority any where else on the band, why should it have a priority right where you are saying emergency traffic should be handled? This makes no sense at all. The highest priority traffic (emergency) and the lowest priority (third party) are OK at 14.300, but all other uses should be curtailed?

Sounds like the nets are using third party traffic handling (which could be done anywhere) as an excuse to tie up the freq "just in case" there might be some sort of emergency pop up.

"We are the trained keepers of the frequency. We can handle our routine traffic here, but you unwashed need to stay away with your ragchews and contests."

Joe

 

So, if the boat had not RF gear on board, then how did amateur radio get involved? At best, we should be merely relaying 3rd party traffic...

Designated by whom? I don't see that on any ARRL bandplan, nor anywhere in Part 97.

So, basically, you're reserving the frequency then, in violation of Part 97.

I'm not seeing how this is construed as "Good amateur practice". I do, however, see reserving a frequency as being in violation of Part 97.

As I read Part 97, I see that the first station on a frequency has priority, unless emergency traffic comes on.

Why do you care if someone on the ham band is listening for maritime traffic? Just call on Marine HF, GMDSS, or on an Iridium phone.

 

You are reading this correctly, and that's the so-called justification which has ALWAYS been used.