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Military experts say radio amateurs "highly knowledgeable asset in HF communication"

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by W0PV, Oct 11, 2020.

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  1. N6TDG

    N6TDG XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Ha! being a Treadhead with the 3rd Armored I am getting a flashback of Liche Bier!
     
    N6SPP likes this.
  2. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Spinnin' the 20m band tonight listening to the CQWW SSB action, spun too hard, lurched up off the top band edge, and WOW! There was a loud CW station at about 14358 kHz indicated by dial mode. What is THAT? o_O

    Except for being strong, first thought was just a numbers station, but after a little copy in my head realized it was plain text, in Englsih, with typical prosigns. It even contained standard Morse "Q" and military (NATO) "Z" codes.

    Eventually I was able to launch HRD Audio Grabber and nab a clip. Listen to it here. (sorry for the sloppy QSY in the middle as I changed mode and determined the frequency) That recorded xmsn was the last of at least two I heard. They seemed identical in content. Previous to the recording I scribbled some of the text and between the two this is a transcipt of the message,

    ... 51NTN NR2106 NR 2106 <II> RR <II> 211323Z OCT 20 211323Z OCT 20 <II> FM FM AVS DOKO AVS DOKO <II> TO TO NTN NTN GR21 GR21 <BT> INTERCOM 386 A COLLECTIVE CALL SIGN IDENTIFIES A PREDETERMINED SUBSET OF STATIONS THAT COULD BE BASED ON GEOGRAPHY/ ORGANIZATION OR MISSION <BT> <AR> NTN <DE> 51NTN ZUJ ZBR2 282200Z OCT 20 QRU <BT> <AR> <SK>

    After some Googling I determined this was probably the US Air Force Auxliary, ie, a Civil Air Patrol (CAP) station, call sign 51NTN, making a National Traffic Net (NTN) broadcast.

    This info was contained in a document by Chuck @WA0ROI, apparently a CAP MAJ and Division Head of Communications Operations. Here is a link to a rendering of the 20 slide presentation titled,

    Communications Operations - Back to the Basics - dated 7 Aug 2019

    It emphasizes a renewed focus on HF, using all modes, and especially on human factors elements, knowledge of propagation, OTA relays, etc, and training for it. Too much to post here, click the bold text link above to read.

    However, Morse code aficiandos should note on slide 13, Broadcasts,

    Telegraphy (CW) broadcasts take place twice per week
    • This broadcast provides Intercom message traffic at two speeds
    This may migrate to 2-way CW comm at some point
    • Contact TELEGRAPH.ACP51@GMAIL.COM or DOKO@CAPNHQ.GOV for more information
     
    N0TZU likes this.
  3. WA5VGO

    WA5VGO Ham Member QRZ Page

    If the military is depending on amateur radio for anything, this country is in serious trouble.
     
    PY2RAF likes this.
  4. VE2QCI

    VE2QCI XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    You need fitness also.
     
  5. K8CGS

    K8CGS Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    The use of HF for comms and to send encrypted and sophisticated compressed recognizance images requires these constant updates to their systems. Yes it is HF but they get to use compression and encryption algorithms and techniques not permitted on our civilian HAM systems. We only wish we could use the speeds and compression they are permitted. It would open up a whole new spectrum of use for us HAMS.
    Here is a short YouTube on US Army Scouts using and learning HF techniques. The school, noted here as RSLC, is no longer called RSLC but now known as the 'Scout Leaders Course'. I have met and know someone well who is currently in a Airborne Scout/Recon/Sniper unit. He knows his HF stuff and they practice it for contingency . Not highly publicized but not a secret either.

     
    W0PV likes this.
  6. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Interesting vid. But it points to an apparent hole in the Rangers knowledge-base, doctrine and training on HF comm that a seasoned radio amateur "asset" could help fix, ie, just because the sun has set doesn't mean all HF quits working well, as is incorrectly stated by SFC Sandorn starting at 2:00.
     
  7. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    This country would be in serious trouble if the government had to directly depended upon patriotic volunteers, outdoors sportsmen, Legionaires or the VFW, who are licensed gun owners, for any security related task too. Except I bet many members of those groups for various reasons of expertise could also be called by experts as "highly knowledgeable asset"s. ;)

    The point of the OP isn't to quibble yet again about the qualifications for the ARS no longer being elite enough for OM snobs. It's that SOME radio amateurs, perhaps MANY, even today, have expertise in HF communications that could be very valuable to the military, and they have it, partly or expressly, because they are radio amateurs.

    We all share being a part of that group, and should be PROUD of it. While Amateur Radio has its parodies, why is there so much defeatist cynicism within the ARS? I don't see that in birdwatchers, chess players or licensed fisherman. :p

    There are never enough, but still many very fit radio amateurs. Just look a little harder. :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
    N0TZU likes this.
  8. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Hopefully the military never has to depend on amateur radio directly, but history shows they have relied on RADIO AMATEURS time and time again.

    As the OP title states, the KNOWLEDGE and experience in HF, and all aspects of radio, are inherent with being an advanced member of the ARS, therefore when its needed, its often someone that is also a HAM that is called upon.

    Example - watch / listen to this biographical narrative from career military communications officer who happens to also be a radio amateur, Dave WB2CDG,

    Military HF Radio History with LTC (ret.) David Fiedler.

    Some fascinating and entertaing anecdotes on the history and machinations of military bureaucracy in regards to HF radio.

    My favorites are how over & over again during his career, when concerns came up over other comms failing, "The Colonel" would come to Dave and say "You know something about HF radio? Nobody else does. You're in charge!" ... :) (timestamp 30:20)

    But the best IMO is the tale of what happened during Desert Storm. The attack proceeded so quickly that it literally outran use of SATCOM (MSC).

    Schwartzkopf and staff asked "Where is 5 Corps?" Nobody knew, nor what to do to find out.

    There was an Air WX guy in HQ who was using a kluged together ham-like combo of COTS HF gear called a "Goldwing" to communicate info for air ops. He piped up and said "I just talked with 5 Corp about WX, want me to ask where they are?"

    At that point the Unit commanders commandeered the HF radio, saying it was "too important" for WX, and instead used it for command & control! :eek::cool: (story starts about 30:55)

    This is one of many videos posted by an active US Army officer / radio amateur, also a co-author in some of the linked papers in the OP, Matt, KF4WZB. He is wise to pick the brain of retired vets like Dave WB2CDG, and his series of episodes on Military HF Radio are a good primer. Here is his YT link.

    The point is, Amateur Radio begets radio amateurs, and military experts say (some) radio amateurs are a "highly knowledgeable asset in HF communication". Always have been, always will be.

    The original holders of KØGRL and K7UGA certainly agreed and were top examples of such an asset. The principle naysayers today, IMO, seem to be mostly naive, arrogant, or corrupt technocrats looking to divert big porkbarrel payouts, or those burned-out from fighting them.



     
  9. KL7IS

    KL7IS Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    As a MARS operator I couldn't agree more. Now if the govment would just buy us some gear...
     
  10. KC1LBB

    KC1LBB Ham Member QRZ Page

    I haven't looked into it more than one search that had a couple interesting looking hits at the top, but I'd search discover.dtic.mil for that sort of paper. I can't remember if FOIA requested docs get into there or not, may be another reading room and you could FOIA request the doc and a redacted version would be produced at some point in time.
     
  11. WA5VGO

    WA5VGO Ham Member QRZ Page

    There was a time when I was proud to be an amateur radio operator. Those days are long past. Now I'm embarrassed when people find out I'm an amateur. Today most outsiders equate the hobby to the citizens band of the 1970's and sadly, that's pretty much what it's become. Technical expertise is almost nonexistent and poor operating habits abound. I've had a couple of people ask me about getting into the hobby. I suggest they look for something more challenging.

    The military doesn't need any "help" from us and won't be asking for it.
     
    PY2RAF and (deleted member) like this.
  12. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    It didn't happen automatically so there must be some positive motivation that renewed that Advanced license only five years ago.

    Evidence to the contrary in the OP and througout this thread. Technical expertise in innovative use of HF radio is nearly nonexistent from any other human resource.

    Once I too was "embarrassed when people find out I'm an amateur" Mostly as an inexperienced young adult looking for love. :rolleyes: Back in those days revealing almost any interest in STEM was a death knell for dating. :eek:

    This was less of a problem after maturing, gaining confidence & self-esteem, more firmly establishing my-self. Becoming comfortable and open being a radio amateur actually opened many doors both professionally and socially for me. :)

    Again, the awkward parodies have abounded since the beginning. Now they are actually in fashion,

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
  13. K6BRN

    K6BRN Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    "Technical expertise in innovative use of HF radio is nearly nonexistent from any other human resource."

    Mmmm. Well. That, an engineering degree and some practical experience will land you a decent income. An amateur radio license? Not so much.

    Why some think commercial and government/military comms does NOT use HF is a little strange. Have they ever LOOKED at just how little spectrum amateur radio REALLY has on HF (other bands too - just crumbs, really) and have you searched to find out just what was using the majority of available bandwidth? Might be a good idea to check.

    Interference from military systems is pretty legendary in the amateur community. Like the old Soviet over the horizon radar "woodpecker". And who used VLF for decades for comms? Uncle Sam. He was there first. Remember TOR? And just why IS 60M so constrained for amateur use. Just what were those government time signal stations? Hmmmm. WWV, WWVH, CHU.

    Amateur Radio is a ... HOBBY. Often fun, sometimes useful. Not professional. Though some developments, like the JT and FT modes are VERY respectable and have really helped the community AND are done to a professional level. VERY rare, though.

    LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD:
    The Warlock: "Why did you bring a cop to my command center!"
    John McClane: "Command center? Its a basement!" (Warlock's MOTHERS basement, in fact.)
    The Warlock: "Who IS this man?"

    Brian - K6BRN
     
  14. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    This issue of the OP is not IF the military uses HF, its HOW they use it now. Mainly in regard to info-com, not radar or telemetry.

    To rephrase a quote from a top US officer, over dependence on bandwidth "makes us dumber" (the military). An integral part of the retro HF effort is reorder military comm priorities, not become paralyzed as just spectrum demanding "Nintendo Generals" & "Powerpoint Rangers".

    Employees with just an engineering degree are a dime a dozen. Ask any hiring exec today and they will often say the FIT of a prospect into an org is more important.

    My first job as an engineer had nothing to do with radio. However the principle person hiring, my boss, was a radio amateur. This came up during the interview as something else we had in common. It was one of the best jobs of my life. :)

    Later I worked with other engineer / hams, again not in the radio field. There was always a commraderie between them that transcended other workplace relationships. :cool:

    Going back to my early life again, at least two of my serious GF's became so intrigued with amateur radio they voluntarily learned Morse code to a Novice level. :p

    My current XYL of 20+ very happy years was recommeneded and introduced to me by a DX'er, whom I had never met OTA, but connected through a previous former GF :eek:

    Amateur radio can play important roles in life. Radio amateurs can be experts & effective people. Try appreciating some of them. :D

    73, John, WØPV
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
    KO4LZ likes this.
  15. K4PIH

    K4PIH Ham Member QRZ Page

    Nintendo Generals! I like that may I use it in some of my communications and writings?
     

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