Discussion in 'Echolink/IRLP Tech Board' started by KD4YSH, Nov 22, 2014.

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  1. KK4YWN

    KK4YWN Ham Member QRZ Page

    in my line of work, this is called "security through obscurity" and it is absolutely not allowed.

    hamnet mesh networks have no value without content. and as i've said: you'd better make sure your content is totally free / non-commercial or you bring doom and gloom to that band.
  2. KU7PDX

    KU7PDX Ham Member QRZ Page

    Correct, amateur radio isn't for things that should be secure. For that, there are licensed services available.
  3. KD0WHU

    KD0WHU Ham Member QRZ Page

    Given the purpose of having a broadband network is to conduct business in most traditional senses (what else are you going to actually use these things for?), the whole project just seems pointless. As for using alternate frequencies, be careful with that even. You have primary on 2300-2310... 10Mhz is good for about 10Mbps, add 4 nodes into that, you have 2Mbps. Why bother when you can use the traditional WiFi stuff, encryption, and other functions? Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should. I have yet to find a need or use for any of the hamnet stuff. I guess you could use it to feed a remote repeater with echolink, but that'd be about it.
  4. WJ4U

    WJ4U Ham Member QRZ Page

    Best argument I've heard for MESH networks is "if amateurs don't use the bands they will be taken away from us". Mind you, I don't know if that's the best reason, but it's the best that I've heard.
  5. KB3VWG

    KB3VWG Ham Member QRZ Page

    The ARES/RACES folks have taken on creating a full Mesh network here in the Maryland/DC section. Quite a few hams in our area have mesh networking available. We're almost to a point where someone can place a 2.4GHz node-mobile and pull near (or in line of sight of) a served agency and connect via MESH.

    There are quite a few points that were raised in this thread regarding security and the utility of such a network.

    Regarding security: As others noted, there's not much by way of encryption that can be undertaken on a Amateur Mesh; and even if you did, you would have to publish the key somewhere. BUT, I and others have debated that the data itself may be encrypted (such as if health information needed to be transferred in a encrypted file). This was a very complex debate regarding the Part 97 phrase "obscure the meaning," when obscuring is allowed (which is RARE) and if one could actually say an 802.11 signal is every truly obscured when the transmissions adhear to the IEEE specifications.

    Regarding utility: in the MDC section, during REAL EMERGENCIES and drills, we're constantly running against a 2400 baud speed limit for sending data for our served agencies. It's impossible to send A/V, specialized forms or many of the other things that could greatly aid a our served agencies in time of a real emergency. We're using MESH to break through the 2400 baud speed barrier.

    We're also working on MESH-based file servers, chat servers, websites, streaming cameras, emergency Internet gateways and VoIP (POTS, WIRES and EchoLink).
  6. N1EN

    N1EN Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Some uses could include:
    • Networking Field Day logging computers
    • Streaming fast scan video over at public service events
    • Setting up a "private" VOIP telephone network for emcomm purposes ("private" here meaning "not connected to traditional commercial network" rather than "encrypted")
    • Relaying a reverse beacon network feed to a contest station lacking standard internet connectivity
    • IP-based control of a repeater situated at a site with poor or no commercial internet connectivity.
    • Experimentation with mobile data network architecture
    • Miscellaneous chat and filesharing akin to what was common on the internet before its commercialization.

    Now, admittedly most of those would work quite well with conventional 802.11* protocols on Part 15 or Part 97 spectrum (with Part 97 opening the door to less-congested frequencies, and higher power). Where the mesh networking comes into play is the dynamic ad hoc nature of the network.

    If you know where your stations and paths are, you can define a superior 802.11-based network. However, if nodes randomly appear or disappear, Mesh is (as I understand it) designed to automagically re-landscape and re-route traffic so that it all "just work" (assuming suitable node-to-node propagation is possible).

    Is this something that will be "practical" for routine use by most hams? Probably not. But there are some uses, and some hams that are excited by exploring those possibilities. So....why not?

    (P.S. Don't forget about 3GHz, assuming you can build/find/adapt gear for it.)
  7. KD0WHU

    KD0WHU Ham Member QRZ Page

    I'm not entirely naysaying it. Like I said, sure, it works, but you're ruining everyone else's party too. :p

    It wouldn't work for VoIP honestly, the latency will probably be too high to be usable, anything beyond 25ms creates an audible echo. As for file sharing, part 15 gear is going to satisfy those bit hungry files better than a mesh node will.

    Experimentation, okay, that one i'll give ya. ;) It's fun, of course. Practicality however, not so much... But as others have stated in another thread, it's faster than 9600.
  8. KC2UGV

    KC2UGV Ham Member QRZ Page

    I beg to differ with you. VoIP applications work just fine over a mesh. Ask the Freifunk folk.
  9. KK4YWN

    KK4YWN Ham Member QRZ Page

    so you can setup an adhoc mesh network and call each other over computers without ever having to bother with a pesky radio.
  10. KC2UGV

    KC2UGV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Actually, it would involve at least two radios, on whichever bands the two ends are using :)

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