Magic power conditioning "reduces energy consumption" ?

Discussion in 'General Technical Questions and Answers' started by N1OOQ, Jun 9, 2018.

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  1. N1OOQ

    N1OOQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Anyone ever encounter this?

    https://www.3dfs.com/

    I saw an article on some website yesterday... it claimed that we could save 50% of the energy we waste in electric power generation/distribution/consumption. Their website and the article are both pretty light on details, but it sounds like voodoo to me... something for nothing.

    Supposed to magically restore nice, clean sine wave power, and somehow that is supposed to make everything run much more efficiently.
     
  2. AA7QQ

    AA7QQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    As more inductive loads are used, they can return EMF (Maybe not the perfect description), that is read again on the meter. For light industrial (Like a small shop), it would help. For a large outfit, they are fitted to the utility company's lines, to clean up the whole system.
    For a homeowner, it would be of little help.

    Ed
     
  3. K8ERV

    K8ERV Ham Member QRZ Page

    I just tell my wife to turn the crank a little faster.

    TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo
     
    K2CAJ likes this.
  4. KB4QAA

    KB4QAA XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    "Power Factor" The difference between Real Power (pure resistive load) consumption and Apparent Power (Inductive/Capacitive Load) consumption.

    Remember the formulas: "ELI the ICE man".
    Voltage leads Current in an Inductive load. Current leads Voltage in a Capacitive load.

    Typically only a problem in plants running machinery with large motors particularly with large or frequent swings in power consumption. Can be minimized with proper capacitive load matched to each piece of equipment.

    For typical offices/homes this is a gold plated solution looking for a problem. Call your electrical power company engineers to discuss whether you can save money by load matching. They want to help you because it balances their load and reduces equipment stresses.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  5. N1OOQ

    N1OOQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yes, I'm familiar with adding of capacitors onto big industrial loads and such. I don't think that's what the products offered at that web site are claiming to do. It's some kind of magical "microsecond by microsecond" filling in of the distorted waveform which is supposed to give outrageously good savings. Like I said, seems like something from nothing.
     
  6. WB2WIK

    WB2WIK Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    There exists, and has for many years now, "active power factor correction" and you'll find it in most common switchmode power supplies rated for any substantial power. On a per-VA basis it's more expensive than passive PFC but can adjust parameters to yield higher PF at varying loads, while passive cannot -- it's optimized for "full load" and is much less efficient under small load conditions.

    I only glanced at that website for a minute or two and didn't find any technical description of what they're doing, but "sounds like" it may be active PFC which adjusts to the load and keeps PF very high under varying load conditions. For "household power" like 240V at 200A or so, this would be pretty expensive, I think.

    Anyone see a "price?" In my brief look, I didn't.

    I think in most households the "big load" that has a lousy PF would be the HVAC system, especially when air conditioning is running so there are at least two big motors running (compressor and circulation). Here I have a "mostly electric" appliance household where the cooktop, double oven and even clothes dryer are electric and they're big loads, too, but almost entirely resistive (except for the tumbler motor in the dryer) so their PF should be very close to 1.0 and there'd be nothing to correct.
     
  7. K8ERV

    K8ERV Ham Member QRZ Page

    That is what I tell my wife about me.

    Also, I have never seen a house that is charged extra for a poor PF. Not worth it to the power company.

    All snake oil.

    TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo
     
  8. KK4TJB

    KK4TJB Ham Member QRZ Page

    Active power factor correction using a Active Power Filter (higher watts required and more cooling) is different than using microsecond by microsecond correction by injection. Also, this 3DFS technology performs current phase balancing, 20A_20A_20A if three phase or 30A_30A if single phase for varied loads summing to 60A over the phases resulting in no neutral current. We like to think of our technology more like, “Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced). Probably too expensive based on billing for many, but for 200W you can correct 30kW to 50kW. Old time PCB designer does not waste his time on snake oil but I do not like electrical losses. In the article click on “well-known” and scroll to bottom of patents. “Methods and systems for identifying transmitted codewords after loss of synchronization in spread spectrum communication systems” Is this snake oil?
     
  9. K0OKS

    K0OKS Ham Member QRZ Page

    KK4TJB, given your QRZ picture with one of the devices (and your statement above) can we assume you are involved in the development?

    Where is this article you speak of? I did not see a link.

    Can you tell us more about the technical details? Is the a patent for this that we could read?

    The website is slick, but reads more like something designed to lure investors. I think potential customers would want to see at least some technical details about how it works, case studies showing a marked improvement, etc.

    It sounds very interesting.
     
  10. WB2WIK

    WB2WIK Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    That was a bit rambling and difficult to follow.

    Can you explain more, technically?

    Also: For those without large reactive loads like motors, what can this possibly do? Unless we have A/C running, the loads in our house (at least the big ones that consume serious power) are all resistive: This would include cooktops, ovens, clothes dryers, water heaters, etc. The "small potatoes" stuff like computers, televisions, LED lighting...all consume such little power I can't see any difference in my electric bill whether we leave them on 24/7 or turn them all off and go on vacation.
     

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