Loss of two meter simplex frequencies IMMINENT in Texas!

Maybe if Texas would get off the 20 KHz channel plan and use 15 KHz they would have enough spectrum.

 

I knew as soon as "D-star" was mentioned that all the cry babies would come out of the wood work .

 

Actually, this has been coming. I have been wondering how long it would take before we lose simplex frequencies.

It's also not just to make room for repeaters (at least directly). Honestly! We have too many people hogging simplex channels, using D-STAR DVAP devices that take a frequency out of service. People are extending the range far beyond the 100mW capability. Some are adding cross-band operations that actually take out 2 frequencies.

I know the claim is they aren't long range but just listen to REF001C and how many people are using cross-banding and DVAPS. Listen to the conversations. Keep a running tally how may are Radio to Repeater vs DVAP. Log in and see for yourself. You can see who's talking vs how they are connected. More are using DVAP than direct radio to repeaters. I know DVAP users will disagree but they have a vested interest in denying this.

IF we had enough repeaters in these areas, there would be little need for DVAP that hog simplex frequencies.

The same applies to IRLP and other simplex nodes.

We really need to get back to putting the radio back into amateur radio

Sorry to be so blunt.

 

IMHO, D-Star is like Echolink for people who can afford an overpriced radio, or who think commercial gear reeks coolness.

What they need to do is find out what currently listed repeaters are actually functional / still in use, and give the holders of non-used pairs a chance to fire it up or give it up.

 

Wow, you mention D-STAR and all the cry babies come out and whine about how it's over priced, and glorified echolink. I've got an idea for you whiners, don't like D-STAR? Don't buy into it.

 

In Wichita County, Texas (Wichita Falls, Burkburnett, Iowa Park - total population around 120,000) there are 12 VHF and 15 UHF repeaters listed. There are two weekly area nets that share participants for an average of 13 to 15 check-ins per week. On rare occasions that number might top 20 check-ins. For the rest of the week these net repeaters, as well as the rest of them, are dead. That’s more than one repeater for every active repeater user in Wichita County, and every few years some new Tech talks about putting up another - just to hear their call sign, I guess. There’s plenty of D-Star frequencies available within that group without tampering with simplex frequencies. I'm not saying that simplex is more popular than repeaters around here, but there's no need for either to encroach on the other. I’m wondering how this situation compares to other counties around Texas?

 

Same comment I was going to make. Frequency coordination for repeaters should not impact simplex users. Simplex users aren't required to be coordinated.

As for sharing the same frequency, DSTAR is supposed to just ignore analog traffic entirely. It should not care if analog simplex users are on the air. The analog users might, however, hear digital signal 'noise' and whatnot, but hey, all they need to do is use a PL to filter it out. DSTAR does not use any kind of PL or DPL tones so it's easy to exclude those signals.

The DSTAR side might feel some performance impact from the analog traffic, if there is a lot of it, but the end result will be nothing worse than the R2D2 that already exists on DSTAR and nobody will be able to tell the difference. Heck, DSTAR users transmit on top of each other fairly often and that ends up muting somebody rather effectively. Analog users won't be able to do that. So even a lot of analog users are not going to make DSTAR any worse than it already can be at times. And there might not be any significant difference. They might get along fine.

So I say, let them share the frequencies and see what happens. Panic later if it turns out to be a mess.

 

I'm always curious why those who can't contribute with meaningful dialog, calls others whiners?

 

I agree 100%! How about the morons out there that constantly insist on using a remote base, linked to a UHF/VHF CALLING FREQUENCY! Here in SoCal, we have some "brain surgeons" that insist on leaving their remotes linked to 146.52 and 446.000. Then, they will even cross band those frequencies into a local repeater! It's terrible. Now I'm seeing the D[eath]-Star repeater users doing the same similar stuff with their system too.

All in all, the FCC controls frequencies and band plans. Those band plans are just a "gentleman's agreement" anyway. If I want to use a SIMPLEX frequency for simplex operation and I'm on the frequency first, I'll use it. What others can also do is start using tone codes to keep simplex operators out of repeaters. Simplex users also can use encode/decode for simplex use to keep others from interfering.

 

What can transmit only a mile or two in one direction can transmit much longer in another. Interference is interference, even if you can't hear it. I have made D-Star communications using a handheld over 20 miles, if conditions are just right.

The other point is that repeaters allow many more people to communicate. AND anyone can communicate on a repeater output frequency, in Simplex mode. Simplex users lose NOTHING by having more repeaters. The only ones who might lose are the ones operating DVAP, IRLP and such where they take a simplex frequency out of use, or essentially hog the frequency. It's only a matter of time until frequency cordinators clamp down on that.

 

Sorry, but frequency coordinators have no authority to clamp down on anything - this is a common misconception. Their only standing is to coordinate repeaters and auxiliary stations. Once coordinated, part 97 only specifies that if there is interference between like repeaters or auxiliary stations that it is incumbent on the uncoordinated station to resolve the interference. See my earlier post in this thread for more details.

- Glenn DJ0IQ and W9IQ

 

This is not exactly true. Well it's true to a point. But let's say you have a repeater and I interfere. The FCC could care less. From their perspective, I have just as much right to the frequency as you. If the one who interfers, with a cordinated frequency doesn't resolve it, it will still get resolved one way or another. Ultimately, this either resolves itself or someone takes it to court or the FCC. The interferer isn't going to the FCC. So the frequecny cordination board would ultimately deal with the matter.

The ultimate decision will come down to the frequency cordination board getting the say, either from the FCC or the courts. It only depends on how far they want to push the issue. I doubt any court or FCC would side with a person who interferes with a cordination board allocation (or cordinated repeater). If the board has no authority, it's because they don't assert their standing.

So, in my view, that lack of authority is purely semantics. they can stop someone from interfering, if they choose to. Otherwise, no one gives a hoot.

 

Since the idea was first proposed "March 1, 2008", does anything make this meeting particularly important compared to previous ones?

By all means, come to Summerfest. We'd be happy to have you!

Mark in Austin, AE5SJ

 

dstarusers.org will give you a list of all the dstar repeaters

 

Who is the Texas Two Meter Society and since when do they have the authority to govern band plans and allocate frequency assignments in the United States?

Last time I checked, establishing band plans and frequency allocation assignments in this United States is a function of the FCC.

Secondly, the proposal is pecuniary in it's nature because it favors the use of specific amateur radio frequencies set aside for a specific manufacturers mode of operation not available on other amateur radio equipment. Perhaps we can also have frequencies assigned and specific to Kenwood, Yaesu and Radio Shack radio equipment too? This is not about Dstar, it's about taking over federally assigned amateur radio frequencies to use as you see fit for an implied agenda.

Imminent? ...The only authority which governs the allocation, assignment and use of frequencies in this country is the Federal Communications Commission so be sure to vote all you like, but you don't have the authority to make such changes or decisions in the first place.

Standing by for the official FCC response on the matter.