Long distance direct node-to-node with ysf

Discussion in 'Digital Radio, DMR, Fusion, Wires, DSTAR' started by K9RDU, Jun 30, 2021.

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  1. K9RDU

    K9RDU XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I've watched a whole day of videos and skimmed several manuals, but haven't seen an answer.

    Can two nodes talk direct cross-country using HTs and ysf repeaters (one on each end) *without using a room*?

    Assuming that's possible:
    it seems you'd have to have a radio that supports dp-id?

    Does the repeater just need C4FM or does it need WiRES? If Wires, which version?

    Are there any Hotspot that support the necessary configuration?
    (hitting a repeater on my end will be "iffy" and if I can't, I need to know whether to get a computer, hri-200, and ftm-xxxdr or if a Hotspot will work)

    Thank you!
  2. W4EAE

    W4EAE XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I apologize, but the explanation is long.

    WIRES-X is one of Yaesu's linking protocols. A WIRES-X Room is a WIRES-X conference server.

    A WIRES-X node can connect to another WIRES-X node, or to a WIRES-X room. So two WIRES-X nodes can connect to each other anywhere in the world.

    IMRS is Yaesu's other (newer) linking protocol. IMRS does not require a computer running any software (like WIRES-X does), but it does require that a network card be installed on the repeater; and that the repeater be configured to link to one or more other repeaters or YCS servers in order for remote connection to be made. Basically, the specific connections available are in the hands of the repeater owners. A repeater owner can select what networks or other connections are available on that repeater. With IMRS, users change the DG-ID of their radios in order to select different connections or networks.

    A stand-alone Yaesu DR-1X or DR-2X that is neither connected to WIRES-X or over IMRS is just that; a stand-alone repeater. No remote connections are possible.

    The DP-ID is another thing all together. Every Yaesu C4FM radio has a built-in DP-ID that is specific to that radio. Basically; you can register the DP-ID of another radio in your radio. You can then call that specific DP-ID over a repeater, WIRES-X network or IMRS network. The DP-ID is also used for verified remote control of a DR-2X over RF.
  3. K9RDU

    K9RDU XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Thank you for the explanation. I understood most before but it helps tie a few concepts together.
    I'm still wondering what the least (and least expensive) equipment to do direct without a ysf or wires-x room)? Can it be done with C4fm Hotspot and Ft70dr, does it require a hotspot and an FT3dr (for pdn)? a computer, ftd3r and cable to connect, or? Surely this direct/"no room" mode is possible with something less than a computer, mobile as an AP, and the ht (we must use HTs).
    Thanks again?
  4. W4EAE

    W4EAE XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    What is really comes down to is that Yaesu developed their version of C4FM in order to sell product. The Windows requirement for WIRES-X is really just because they didn't want to spend a lot of money on development for multiple platforms, and Windows would be the most common for amateur radio users (though not me:)). The PDN mode you mentioned is part of Yaesu's WIRES-X linking system, and it requires a Windows computer and and interface cable that Yaesu sells.

    FCS, YSF, and XLX reflectors were all developed to work with Yaesu's C4FM hardware, but none work directly with their WIRES-X system.

    You can use a C4FM radio with a hotspot, but hotspot to hotspot direct connections over WAN are not possible (FYI, this is possible with D-Star). For two hotspot users to talk to each other, both hotspots need to be connected to the same reflector.

    FCS is a relatively closed system, but the software for a YSF or XLX reflector is freely available, and can be run on a Raspberry Pi.
    K9RDU likes this.
  5. K9RDU

    K9RDU XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Thank you so much! I was coming here to update my question with an answer - after a 15 minute call with a Yaesu engineer! But you beat me to it.
    I really want to go d-star, but due to some personal and geographic limitations, it's probably not an option. I will research it more though.

    In short: even when using ysf radios with dg-id and dp-id capabilites and C4fm capable repeaters and Hotspot, radio-to-radio direct (that is, WITHOUT a wires-x room created by an hri-200) is not possible without a cabled connection to a computer with a ft2-3dr or Ftm100-400 and wires-x software. That's the cheapest way.
    It makes no sense to me on a technical level why wires_x needs to be involved, but it is what it is.
    For other's reference: the other options are:
    PC, hri-200, ftm-100-400 (ft2-3 not a supported configuration) as an AP and an ht to roam the house.
    Dr-2x repeater with hri-200... Having this as a home repeater is about the same price as the aforementioned AP configuration but does the entire community some good.
  6. K9RDU

    K9RDU XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    What would it take to do long distance radio to radio direct cheap and easy with d-star? I've spent all my mental energy thus far on ysf and wires. My poor little brain is fried
  7. W4EAE

    W4EAE XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    The FT3D cannot be used with the HRI-200; but it you have an FT3D, you don't need and HRI-200 for WIRES-X because it supports PDN mode. You connect the FT3D with Yaesu's cable to a computer running the WIRES-X software. If you already have the FT3D and a Windows PC, then this is the lowest-cost option. The only expense is the cable.

    I really, really don't mean to be snarky; but it strikes me that the easiest and cheapest way to accomplish your goal of no-RF direct contact would just be to pick up the telephone and call the individual you are trying to reach.
  8. K9RDU

    K9RDU XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Right. I was talking about using a mobile in AP mode with an HRI-200 and an HT if you didn't want to be stuck tethered to the computer.

    I've pretty much came to the same conclusion. My young son is getting his tech license next week, and I thought it would be a cool 1st project, but why bother with all this amateur radio stuff when we have cell phones? that's not meant to be snarky either. It just doesn't make sense to go through so much work and expense to talk when we can already do it effortlessly.

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