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Legal callsign identification

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by KD3V, Jul 25, 2002.

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  1. K3XR

    K3XR Ham Member QRZ Page

    this post is a good exercise, in that, it has caused people to review the fcc regs relative to station id, phonetics, etc....and yes there are portions that may be subject to interpretation,this is not uncommon in any area of the law, that's why we have lawyers and courts...there is nothing in any of the interpretations that would have a serious impact on operating procedure....while i am sure it may have happened over the years.....when was the last time you heard or read of a ham being charged, by the fcc,  with going a couple of minutes over on a station id, or charged for using, not using, or using the wrong phonetics...sometimes things need to be placed in their proper perspective.
     
  2. AC7EL

    AC7EL Ham Member QRZ Page

    The FCC's rules for ID'ing are just what the FCC regs say: You only have to ID at the end of a series of transmissions (and after 10 minutes).  There is no requirement to ID at the beginning.  Most people do ID at the beginning, but that is a courtesy, not a requirment.  In the Technician License Question Pool, questions T1D07 thru T1D10 deal with this issue, and the correct answers are consistent with what I stated above.

    These rules permit the use of tactical callsigns for public service work.  Stations use calls like "Net Control" or "Fire Station" to establish communications.  At the end of each series of transmissions, each gives his own FCC callsign.

    Regarding the use of phonetics, from ARRL - In Brief - May 17, 2000

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Riley Hollingsworth: Is my face red? FCC Special Counsel for Amateur Radio Enforcement Riley Hollingsworth says he was just trying to see if the amateur community was paying attention when he suggested on his recent Radio Amateur Information Network enforcement news report (http://www.rainreport.com) that the use of phonetics during station identification was contrary to the amateur rules. As Hollingsworth has since conceded, after being challenged from several quarters, the applicable FCC station ID rule--§97.119(b)(2)--specifically encourages &quot;use of a standard phonetic alphabet as an aid for correct station identification&quot; [emphasis added]. &quot;I plead temporary insanity,&quot; Hollingsworth told the ARRL. &quot;I was working too close to my antennas the evening before.&quot; [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Thus use of phonetics is legal and encouraged.
     
  3. K9STH

    K9STH Platinum Subscriber Volunteer Moderator Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    There is still the &quot;unidentified&quot; transmission prohibition. If someone were to make an initial transmission that lasted for 10 minutes, then, in my interpretation of the regulations, all that would be required is the signing of the call sign at the 10 minute mark. However, since most transmissions do not last that long (a repeater's timer should take care of that on FM), you still have to give your call sign at least once during the first transmission. As long as this transmission is identified, I don't think it matters exactly wherein that initial transmission the identification is made. But, I always identify usually within the first 5 words, or so.

    If one makes more than one transmission without identifying, then, I firmly believe, that they are in violation of the identification regulations. In fact, as soon as the station stops transmitting without identifying for the initial exchange, then the law has been &quot;technically&quot; violated.

    What &quot;chaps&quot; me is when someone breaks into a QSO, usually on an FM repeater, and starts making comments. Often, one, or more, of the stations in the &quot;roundtable&quot; know who the person is. But, that does not do anything for those who do not know the breaking station. Even if there was not the regulation about unidentified transmissions, common courtesy calls for a breaking station to identify.

    Glen, K9STH
     
  4. KB9YFI

    KB9YFI Ham Member QRZ Page

    I do not believe that the rules intend a station to identify on _each_ transmission. If they did than the station who did not identify at the end of his first transmission would be in violation. Thusly, a station would have to re-identify on each following transmission. If a station were to not identify on his first transmission and some motor-mouth were to break in and start a new conversation with the other station and not allow the first station to identify after 10 minutes then technically he would be in violation. Would he be in violation if he QRM'd the breaking station in an attempt to ID? What if he had no other choice? I think that the rules are good for general operation but must be applied to a situation like this with some leniency. I have been in the above situation and was so disgusted by being ram-rodded right out of a QSO that I just ID'd and QSY'd to another machine. People that slavishly adhere to the rules for the sake of rules are missing the point of why they were made in the first point.

    Jim - KB9YFI
     
  5. KC2JCA

    KC2JCA XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I think I better rework my CW rig. In &quot;break in mode&quot; just the act of sending the &quot;C&quot; character would be 4 separate unidentified transmissions.


    73, Jim - kc2jca
     
  6. AC7UX

    AC7UX Ham Member QRZ Page

    It`s really to bad something so simple has to become so complicated. Simplicity: Whose nature is so far from doing harm that he suspects none....SHAKESPEARE......
     
  7. N0XAS

    N0XAS Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke5wj @ July 29 2002,19:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This discussion is truly amazing.

    Anyone who isn't sure of how and when to identify, please don't transmit.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Best suggestion I've heard yet! [​IMG]
     
  8. K9STH

    K9STH Platinum Subscriber Volunteer Moderator Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    At one time, the Part 97 regulations &quot;spelled out&quot; the indentification requirements as follows:

    1. At the beginning and end of each series of transmissions (i.e. at the start and end of the QSO).

    2. At 10 minute intervals during a series of transmissions.

    3. If a single transmission was in excess of 3 minutes, then at the end of that particular transmission.

    4. At least one of the stations in which one was in communications must be identified along with your call sign (if engaged in a &quot;round table&quot;, net, etc., only one station of the group had to be identified) at each time the station identification was required.

    Those regulations have become somewhat relaxed. However, if you follow the &quot;old&quot; rules, then you will definitely meet all identification requirements.

    Glen, K9STH
     
  9. K6NCX

    K6NCX Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ July 28 2002,20:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is still the &quot;unidentified&quot; transmission prohibition.  If someone were to make an initial transmission that lasted for 10 minutes, then, in my interpretation of the regulations, all that would be required is the signing of the call sign at the 10 minute mark.  However, since most transmissions do not last that long (a repeater's timer should take care of that on FM), you still have to give your call sign at least once during the first transmission.  As long as this transmission is identified, I don't think it matters exactly wherein that initial transmission the identification is made.  But, I always identify usually within the first 5 words, or so.

    If one makes more than one transmission without identifying, then, I firmly believe, that they are in violation of the identification regulations.  In fact, as soon as the station stops transmitting without identifying for the initial exchange, then the law has been &quot;technically&quot; violated.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    No, Glen, the regs say &quot;transmission or series of transmissions.&quot; Why assume they mean something other than what they say?

    What you describe may be rude, but not a violation.
     
  10. K9STH

    K9STH Platinum Subscriber Volunteer Moderator Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    For NCX:

    I'm not sure that we are on the same &quot;frequency&quot;! The regulations allow for identification every 10 minutes during a sequence of transmissions. That is, every transmission does not have to be identified. However, they also prohibit &quot;unidentified&quot; transmissions (or series of transmissions). Thus, I interpret that to mean identification should be made on the initial transmission since not to do so results in a &quot;series&quot; of transmissions that are not identified. Your interpretation may be different.

    Frankly, I think that the FCC should go back to the earlier regulations that actually &quot;spelled out&quot; what identification procedures actually were. That would take the &quot;guess&quot; out of it!

    Glen, K9STH
     
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