Legal callsign identification

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by KD3V, Jul 25, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
ad: L-HROutlet
ad: l-rl
ad: L-MFJ
ad: MessiPaoloni-1
ad: Left-2
ad: Left-3
ad: Subscribe
  1. KA7RRA

    KA7RRA Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Go www.ARRL.ORG and ask the ARRL they got the answer for everything
    Dave...
     
  2. W5ATX

    W5ATX Guest

    Yes, you can QSO for 9.59 before you ID. Yes you must ID every 10 minutes AND at the end of the QSO. And yes, you may use phonetics. I didn't realise the word "standard" had been removed from 97.119 either. If that's gone, then it's gone. But to ID with some silly sounding phonetics is ok, but confusing. Stick to the basics - it makes it easier for everyone. But hey, it's your license, do what you want.
     
  3. KB1GYQ

    KB1GYQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Just learn to send your ID at 200wpm in CW.... there is no speed limit for hand sent, only for automatic!
     
  4. K9STH

    K9STH Platinum Subscriber Volunteer Moderator Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Some amateurs believe that you do not have to give your call sign at the beginning of a series of transmissions, only at 10 minute intervals and at the end of the QSO. However, even though the FCC regulations do not apprarently indicate that your call sign is given at the beginning, you must still give them at the very beginning of the QSO. The FCC requires that no unidentified transmissions can be made. Thus, if you do NOT identify at the beginning of your 10 minute series, then you are indeed transmitting unidentified for that time period. This, is definitely illegal.

    Somehow, the requirement that "spelled out" the need for identification at the beginning was eliminated. However, the situation is still "taken care of" by the "no unidentified transmissions" section.

    Glen, K9STH
     
  5. KB1GYQ

    KB1GYQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0KLT @ July 24 2002,23:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3XR @ July 24 2002,22:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">has 97.119(b)(2) been changed recently.....my edition updated to april 2000 does not contain the word STANDARD phonetic alphabet....

    it says....BY A PHONE EMISSION IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE.  USE OF A PHONETIC ALPHABET AS AN AID FOR CORRECT STATION IDENTIFICATION IS ENCOURAGED....

    DAN, K3XR[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    The version of the rule book I have uses the words 'standard phonetic alphabet as an aid'

    The version I have is the ARRL's FCC Rule Book, 12 Edtion. It has a copyright date of 2000. I am not sure if another version is out yet or not. I picked this up about a year ago, direct from the ARRL.

    73
    Gary - N0KLT[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Fun is! The 2001 version at the GPO does omit &quot;standard&quot;... The ARRL's site is OUT OF DATE! (ask if I'm surprized)

    Kindly Bacchus One Gigantic Yearning Quenched. out [​IMG]
     
  6. W3SY

    W3SY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Once we fix THIS problem, let's try to get DX stations running a pileup to identify every now and then. I'm tired if listening to nothing but &quot;WA3RBQ - 59... W1AW - 59... W3GX - 59...&quot; for 15 minutes (or more). Then you get the &quot;What's your callsign, Old Man?&quot; and &quot;What's his call? What's his call?&quot; people clogging up the works.

    Sometimes, you just have to call the guy, then ask &quot;Can I have your complete callsign, please?&quot; Yeah, I know it's not a great practice to call someone without first knowing who you are calling, but you can die of old age waiting for an ID from this crowd. Had one DX station (after not identifying for a solid 15 minutes) respond to my request for his callsign by telling me, in so many words, that he would be identifying soon... Keep listening.

    Huh? Thanks, Akhmud, but in the time it took to scold me, you could have identified twice: Once in standard ITU phonetics, and once in &quot;cute&quot; phonetics. Grrrrrrr...

    Weighing in on the original issue, my understanding is, and always has been: ID at the beginning of the QSO, at least once every 10 minutes, and at the end. Phonetics are ok, and don't have to be &quot;standard.&quot; And you no longer need to include the other station's callsign in your ID (though I often do anyway). That's it. Case closed. Take it to the bank.

    Whiskey Three Strawberry Yogurt .... out!
     
  7. KD3V

    KD3V Guest

    I am quite amused by the DIFFERENT opinions as to what the legal minimums are believed to be.

    This points out why I wrote the original question.

    We do not have a complete understanding from just &quot;reading the regs&quot; as a few of you are implying and what &quot;has been part of good general operating procedures&quot; seems to differ depending on who you talk to. Again, this is why I brought this up.

    It is NOT obvious exactly what the legal minimums are.

    A few of you who are each certain 'you' have it right, disagree on part of it. Who is correct?

    At this point I will state what I believe is correct.

    1. since no unidentified transmissions are allowed, we must identify at the beginning of each distinct qso, but obviouly not every time we take a turn to transmit during it.

    2. ID at least every 10 minutes and at the end when you do not expect to transmit anymore.

    3. Using phonetics is fine as an AID to understanding, it is NOT a valid ID. You must use the letters/digits individually at the biginning and at the end.
    3A. It is a mistake (and actually illegal) to ONLY use phonetics when you ID.

    This last point #3 is what I recall reading from the FCC comment that clarified the issue and which I am trying to locate.

    My point was made by the differing opinions of what is &quot;generally accepted practice&quot; an what actually is the legal minimum requirement.

    For those that think this is not an issue then you should re-read the above comments and see that there are different interpretations and that is what I am trying to clarify for myself.

    If we are to be a self-regulating service then we ought to know what the &quot;regulating&quot; rules really mean.
     
  8. VA7KBH

    VA7KBH Ham Member QRZ Page

    All I know is that it's spelled out real easy up here in Canada:

    For our ID, we have to:

    ID at the beginning and end of every QSO

    And every half hour

    VA7KBH
    victor alpha seven kilo bravo hotel
     
  9. KC2JCA

    KC2JCA XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (dkf @ July 25 2002,11<!--emo&amp;[​IMG])</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It is NOT obvious exactly what the legal minimums are.

    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


    Actually, it is QUITE OBVIOUS what the minimums are.
    But you people who only read the parts of things that make your point never quite hear what is required of the rest of the group.


    §97.119 Station identification.
    (a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every ten minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions. No station may transmit unidentified communications or signals, or transmit as the station call sign, any call sign not authorized to the station.




    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A few of you who are each certain 'you' have it right, disagree on part of it. Who is correct?

    At this point I will state what I believe is correct.

    1. since no unidentified transmissions are allowed, we must identify at the beginning of each distinct qso, but obviouly not every time we take a turn to transmit during it.

    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


    But, sir, the regulation clearly states att he end of the communication. Why do you insist on reading in the words &quot;at the beginning&quot;?

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
    2. ID at least every 10 minutes and at the end when you do not expect to transmit anymore.
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


    I just love the way you have rewritten the regs.




    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
    3. Using phonetics is fine as an AID to understanding, it is NOT a valid ID.
    You must use the letters/digits individually at the biginning and at the end.
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


    That's not at all what they say, you are interpreting them to your own standards just to validate your points.


    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
    3A. It is a mistake (and actually illegal) to ONLY use phonetics when you ID.
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


    Again, you are mistaken.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
    This last point #3 is what I recall reading from the FCC comment that clarified the issue and which I am trying to locate.

    My point was made by the differing opinions of what is &quot;generally accepted practice&quot; an what actually is the legal minimum requirement.

    For those that think this is not an issue then you should re-read the above comments and see that there are different interpretations and that is what I am trying to clarify for myself.
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


    Well, you have interpreted them in a way to validate your own points. But you have far from understood them.



    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If we are to be a self-regulating service then we ought to know what the &quot;regulating&quot; rules really mean.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I agree. We'll start with you.


    No unidentified transmission.
    So to clarify, just how long is a transmission, and at what length of time does it constitute itself being unidentified?

    For example:

    I grab my HT and using the PTT I say:
    &quot;The following is a test transmission of a Radio Shack HTX-202 on the repeater located at 146.910Mhz in Central New Jersey. If any stations copy please confirm. This is KC2JCA, over.&quot;

    I then release my PTT, a courtesy tone then transmits and the repeater unkeys.

    At which particular word was I not following the regulations by transmitting an unidentified communication?

    Please, be specific.
     
  10. KE7VE

    KE7VE Banned QRZ Page

    1.) BY A PHONE EMISSION IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. USE OF A PHONETIC ALPHABETC AS AN AID FOR CORRECT STATION IDENTIFICATION IS ENCOURAGED....


    2.) “Using phonetics is fine as an AID to understanding, it is NOT a valid ID.“DKF

    iF YOU READ NO.1 AND THEN WROTE NO.2....THERE ARE ONE OR MORE WORDS IN NO.1 THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW THE MEANING OF OR YOU HAVE A WRONG MEANING THAT YOU BELIEVE IS CORRECT.

    YOU SEEM TO THINK THAT.....

    as an AID to understanding = AS AN AID FOR CORRECT STATION IDENTIFICATION

    TRY LOOKING UP THE DEFINATIONS OF...AS...AN...AID &amp; FOR. IF YOU CANNOT GIVE SEVERAL DEFINATIONS TO THESE WORDS QUICKLY....YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY MEAN. LOOK THEM UP AND YOUR COMFUSION ON THIS MATTER WILL END. NO ONE CAN GET THROUGH TO YOU BECAUSE YOU THINK NO.1 SAYS SOMETHING IT DOESN'T.


    ALSO I NEVER IDENTIFY AT THE BEGINNING OF A TRANSMISSION...SINCE TO DO SO WOULD BE ODD, WHICH IS WHY IT SAYS AT THE END AND EVERY 10 MINUTES.

    AN EXAMPLE...K7RKR TRANSMITTING, CQ, CQ, CQ THIS IS K7RKR.

    K9STH TRANSMITTING, K7RKR THIS IS K9STH. K7RKR TRANSMITTING K9FPH THIS IS K7RKR, DO I HAVE THAT CALL CORRECT FOXTROT PAPA HOTEL?

    ALSO ID'ING WITH A PHONETIC ALPHABET IS ENCOURAGED...THAT MEANS THEY WOULD LIKE YOU TO DO IT SO THEY(THE FCC) DON'T GET YOUR CALL WRONG LIKE I GOT GLEN'S.


    73 ALL, MARTY K7RKR
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page