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"Key Up" Check-Ins On Digital (DMR, D-STAR,P25, NXDN, etc) Nets

Discussion in 'Digital Radio, DMR, Fusion, Wires, DSTAR' started by KB0OXD, Oct 2, 2019.

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  1. KB9OAK

    KB9OAK Ham Member QRZ Page

    Ah ha.
  2. KA9WDX

    KA9WDX Ham Member QRZ Page

    Hi Pat,

    I know this is quite a long time since your post, but I'll respond to it anyway, and if you check into the weekly KB0ZSG International D-Star Net, which used to be on REF001C, but is now being held on REF091C, from 7 PM to about 11 PM Central Time on Sunday evenings, the NCS takes, and even sort of asks for, "Quick Key" checkins.

    After there are some checkins, then the NCS gets you to check into the net, after acknowledging the checkins, and make your comments.

    Your ID goes over D-Star every time you transmit, so you can see right on the transceiver's screen the call sign, plus if you look at the dashboard, you'll see the call sign also.

    The NCS has the Net Logger program running, where he makes up the list of checkins, and you can run that program to watch the callsigns there if you so choose to do so.

    I think that when you start monitoring the net, using Net Logger, the NCS will see your call and add you as a checkin without you even transmitting, at least that's what has happened with me when checking into that particular net on Sunday evenings.

    What has bothered me in the past, were a few of the nets on Echolink, analog in other words, and where the NCS asks you to give just your last characters, or suffix, of your call to check in, then when the NCS asks you for your comments, you check in with your full call...

    Now years ago we did need to use our entire call sign at the beginning of our transmissions, but we no longer need to do that here in the USA, but we do need to ID at the end of a transmission, or series of transmissions, and every 10 Minutes, so it works to just use your suffix to check into the net on analog, like on Echolink, if you are able to ID at least within 10 Minutes with your full call sign, but what if I'd check in with my suffix, after 5 others had also checked in, and if they each take 2 Minutes to talk, and if the NCS also takes a Minute to talk, then by the time it gets to my turn to talk, more than 10 Minutes have gone by, and that's what used to bother me about checking into nets when the NCS asks for only suffixes, and if the FCC ever gets on my back about it, then I'll never check into a net using only the suffix of my call sign when the NCS asks us to check in that way.

    Also, yes, unless you have the TG or Talk Group set up as a Static TG, you do need to key up to make it a Dynamic TG, unless I can access the dashboard and set the TG up temporarily as a Static TG, and so when I want to do the Dynamic TG thing, I do the "Quick Key" method to start hearing that TG, or to connect to it, and the main reason why I do that, other than connecting to the TG in the first place, is because there may be a conversation going on, and I don't want to cause too much interference to that, or I don't want to interrupt the conversation any more than I have to, that's why I do the key up and unkey right away.

    73 and have a great day,
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  3. K0RGR

    K0RGR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    My only issue with the 'quick key' is that we have many visually impaired hams who might be left out. You can even call CQ that way on Dstar.
  4. K3XR

    K3XR Ham Member QRZ Page

    ยง 97.119 Station identification.
    (a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions.

    "at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication,"

    Notice the term used is "communication" not transmission. I can't find the word communication in the definitions section of part 97 so it's subject to interpretation.

    "least every 10 minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions"

    If the purpose is to identify the source of the transmissions and you have not transmitted for 10 minutes ...what's the problem?
    W4ZGC likes this.
  5. AI7PM

    AI7PM Ham Member QRZ Page

    It never ceases to amaze me how something so simple is made so complicated by opinions, personal techniques, mis-information, and the usual web blabber. Just go read the regs. Then learn what your mode is really sending. Problem solved. Oh, and "for ID" isn't required verbiage.
    W4ZGC, WA0CBW and N4CVX like this.
  6. K6EEN

    K6EEN Ham Member QRZ Page

    I don't bother keying up at all to check in on most digital nets. Just use the "pre-check-in" website or the Telegram chat or Discord chat or NetLogger to report your call to Net Control, then fire up DVSwitch or DROID-Star on the Android phone or tablet, connect to the net's active reflector via IP, and have the Android device cast the net's audio stream to the home audio speakers via BlueTooth. No ham radio spectral emissions needed to check in --- Android WiFi handles the upstream textual check-in, and Android WiFi & BlueTooth handle the net downstream audio via RF but not on ham frequencies --- so no need to ID at all.:)

    To be pedantic, D-STAR and System Fusion include the ASCII callsign in the digital transmission and meet the FCC requirements for IDing, so you don't need to use in-band voice ID for those modes unless the audio stream is cross-connected to analog repeaters or DMR. DMR is another story... as pointed out it uses integer numbers in the signaling data stream, not ASCII callsigns.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  7. KA9WDX

    KA9WDX Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yes, I've heard the, "For ID" many times, but I ignore's no big thing for me if they want to say that...It's like saying 73s instead of 73, saying, "Seventy Threes" instead of just "Seven Three," since 73 already means "Best Regards," so 73s would be, "Best Regardses" or something like that.

    However, lately, I've been hearing people say, "Seventy Five Minus Two," instead of 73...LOL...and I figure that they're just doing that for humorous purposes.

    Also, it's like saying, "Hi Hi" when using voice, when I myself would only do that on CW, to signify laughing, and of course, LOL on a text message to also signify laughing, but some people say "Hi Hi" on voice instead of just laughing.

    Things that I've noticed but that I don't make a big deal out of.
  8. NC5P

    NC5P Ham Member QRZ Page

    The 2016 DMR standard added "talker alias" which can digitally transmit your actual callsign. The problem at the present time is that not all radios, repeaters, and networks support this.
    AB6RF and AG5DB like this.
  9. W4EAE

    W4EAE XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    This is true, but I think that the biggest problem with it is the lack of a consistent standard.

    It might be possible that the talker alias function would meet the FCC requirement since you as an individual licensee are sending your actual callsign which could be rendered using an open standard. However, this would only be applicable to simplex use. As you stated, the repeater or network might pass it on, or might filter it.

    Without a universal standard, this just remains to complicated and there are too many unknowns to simply forego voice identification on DMR.

    It still might be possible to use quick-key for checking into a net though. You have 10 minutes from the time you quick key until you are legally required to ID.
  10. NC5P

    NC5P Ham Member QRZ Page

    You bring up some interesting points. This is an official ETSI standard but since it's an addition to the old one much of the network and radios are stuck in the previous version. The core networks can add it and I understand Brandmeister is doing so but the many repeater owners and bridge owners may not all get on the same page and likely not in a timely manner. I look at digital ID as an nice feature but not a substitute for voice ID on voice calls, even if it meets FCC requirements. Some digital networks are tied into analog repeaters as well so it's really important to ID with voice because you never really know where your signal is going.

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