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"Key Up" Check-Ins On Digital (DMR, D-STAR,P25, NXDN, etc) Nets

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by KB0OXD, Oct 2, 2019.

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  1. KB0OXD

    KB0OXD Ham Member QRZ Page

    In listening to a few Digital Nets via DMR, I've begun to notice a disturbing trend when it comes to checking into the Digital Nets

    "Key Up" check-ins

    Now forgive me if I start to sound like a "Ham Cop" as that's not what I'm trying to do (Well OK...Maybe I am - somewhat :) ) & I certainly don't wanna start a flame war. But obviously SOME people need to be reminded that simply "Keying Up" IS NOT the LEGAL way to check into a net

    The LEGAL way to check into a net (At least here in the U.S., your country may have different rules) is to ANNOUNCE YOUR CALLSIGN IN AN AUDIBLE FORM (Be it CW for CW Nets or voice for voice nets - ANALOG OR DIGITAL)

    The ONLY exception to this are Packet Nets (Nets held using some type of Packet Radio mode) & when you're going through a DMR repeater where the repeater hasn't been activated to join the net (This is usually the case with the TAC 310 Net) when it's basically pointlrss to announce yourself as you won't be heard

    I dunno - Call me "Old School" here BUT as seems to me that SOME things should remain the same - EVEN in the new Digital era we're in

    Thoughts?? Tar?? Feathers?? (*GULP!* :) )

    Cheers & 73 :)

    Pat, KB0OXD
     
  2. WG7X

    WG7X Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Pat, for all us unwashed, ignorant masses, maybe you can tell us exactly what a "key up" check in " is. I'm guessing that the digital transceivers send a callsign or some other user ID when keyed?

    If that is the case, I can begin to understand the problem.

    Just a thought, though... Nets are something that some like some don't. I'm kind of in the second category, although I do check into my local club's weekly two meter net as much as possible. 2 - meter FM, analog, no digital. A long time ago, when I was new to the hobby, I did sit in on a few nets, but found it boring, especially since there were so many other ways to get on the radio and chat or explore, or whatever.

    Just my opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it...
     
  3. KB0OXD

    KB0OXD Ham Member QRZ Page

     
  4. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Yeah but with DMR you have to key it up to connected the modem to the network. So its kerchunk by design.
     
    WS4JM likes this.
  5. KB0OXD

    KB0OXD Ham Member QRZ Page

    Only with repeaters. Not Hotspots

    If you're running a hotspot like a repeater, you're likely not using not using static talkgroups (In which case, it IS kerchunking by design)

    But what I'm talking about is when people WITH ACTIVE, OPEN HOTSPOTS do it. then is a different beast than doing it via a repeater. If you can actual hear the net, you shouldn't be doing "Key Up" check-ins

    And that's to say NOTHING about talkgroups like the HandiHams talkgroup, the PAPA System & others that also have ANALOG repeaters & other VoIP connections like EchoLink & IRLP involved as well

    In THOSE cases, Net Control could be on EchoLink & they won't have ANY IDEA who's trying to check in because ALL THEY SEE is a bunch of kerchunking

    This is where VERBALLY ANNOUNCING your callsign can clear up any such confusion because Net Control WILL KNOW the callsign of the person trying to check-in & will proceed to add you to the list as is standard net procedure

    On some nets (Like ARES nets), this practice isn't EVEN ALLOWED (Which is why we currently aren't seeing many Ares group embracing DMR as a mode for net operations & likely never will EXCEPT in emergency situations)
     
  6. K5TEE

    K5TEE Ham Member QRZ Page

    Pat,
    For clarification, could you please site the rule or law that states the LEGAL way to check into a net?
    Thank you,
    Tom
    K5TEE
     
  7. W4RAV

    W4RAV Ham Member QRZ Page

    That I'm quite sure is not true. You just have to ID in the mode you're using.
    (I could take the time and show it to you in Part97, but you can google that just as fast as I can.)

    So from how I see it, if keying up using DMR (D-Star, etc) sends your callsign in digital form, that's good enough for the FCC.
    (Being against repeater rules however, is a whole different thing.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
    WG7X likes this.
  8. W4EAE

    W4EAE Subscriber QRZ Page

    As concerns the proper way to check-in to a net, that is entirely the province of the net controller.

    I have only come across the quick-key check-in on D-Star. D-Star is not simply a voice mode, it is a voice and data mode. When you quick-key, you are making a data transmission that includes your callsign. This meets the FCC requirement for identification. The SE Weather Net relies completely on quick-key check-ins. The procedure is to quick-key when check-ins are called for your state, then the NC comes back to each and asks for name and location. In this instance, you ID by voice as well quite within the 10 minute FCC requirement; so you are double covered.

    C4FM 'Fusion' also sends your callsign on a quick-key, so it should meet FCC ID requirements as well.

    DMR only sends your DMR ID. The DMR ID basically means nothing. It exists as a gentleman's agreement and does not meet FCC requirement for ID.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
    KD9NQC, WG7X, AG5DB and 1 other person like this.
  9. W4EAE

    W4EAE Subscriber QRZ Page

    Functionally speaking, I use 'RX-History' (a single button press) to keep track of callsigns even when they are being verbally given. It is a lot easier, and can prevent a lot of mistakes from poor audio or pronunciation. On D-Star, even if the audio is garbled, the call sign normally makes it through.
     
  10. KD4MOJ

    KD4MOJ Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    D-Star started that. There was a program that net control could watch that showed up all the call signs. I haven't been on D-Star for a few years but I had that prgm at one point.

    ...DOUG
    KD4MOJ
     

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