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Kenwood TS-590 or Icom IC-7410 as main HF/6M rig -- which is better, pros and cons?

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio Equipment Reviews' started by KC3PY, Sep 29, 2013.

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  1. KD3NE

    KD3NE Ham Member QRZ Page

    I feel it is a toss up between the two you asked us to look at for you.

    I have heard some 590's on the air and when you get them set up well, they sound good.

    I have played with the TS590's and Icom 7410's at HRO as well as in friends shacks.

    I went to HRO intending on buying an Icom 7410 and an Ameritron HF Amp.

    I came home that day with the Icom IC-7600.

    Had to wait a while to get my amp, but the wait was well worth it because I ended up with a bigger and better amp.
  2. N1GMV

    N1GMV Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    May I ask, did you operate the 7410 and the 7600 at HRO? Was it the receive capabilities or the bling of the display that made you go for the 7600? The reason I ask is I am planning to go to HRO and wonder if I will do the same thing.

  3. PA3EKE

    PA3EKE XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I owned both rigs and had them site by site. Both sold due ALC overshoot. BUT the last production run of the IC7410 is free of overshoot.
    Both rigs are very good but the IC-7410 has superb TX audio, also with the handmike. The TS-590 is a little bit tricky to find the good settings.
    Normally i am using outboard audio gear but when operating the 590 without the internal speechprocessor on the audio sounds like a tranceiver with a too low bias currenct. Also the average speech power is a bit low on the TS-590. The noise reduction on the IC7410 is better. The PF key on the TS-590 is very handy, this lacks the 7410. So i give the 5 stars to the IC-7410 and i am thinking of buying a new one without the overshoot problem. A perfect rig. And not all moderen rigs had overshoot.....
    73 PA3EKE
  4. N2EAC

    N2EAC Guest

    I did a side-by-side of the IC-7410 and the TS-590S. Both are excellent values. So, deciding which one to buy leaves one to familiarity, comfort in use and lastly features. I bought the IC-7410 with a 3K (I think the 6K filter is redundant) roofing filter because of familiarity and interface with my PW-1. Once I put it in line, I also did an A/B with my IC-7700 and the IC-7410. Yes, the IC-7700 is more than 4 times the price. The IC-7410 is a tremendous value. As an aside I used to own a 756proIII and except for a lack of dual watch and a continuous band scope, the tx and rx audio and DSP the IC7410 is leaps and bounds superior to the IC-756proIII. You can't go wrong with either the Kenwood TS-590S or the Icom IC-7410 (with the 3K roofing filter). I am just glad to see both companies building well featured "reasonably" priced radios. 73, Ed, N2EAC
  5. PA1ZP

    PA1ZP Ham Member QRZ Page

    Hi Patrick

    I know the term, thrown in the deep on HF hihi.
    I was thrown in the deep in 1999, when I got my C-license here ( only alowed 6 mtrs to 3 CM bands ), never have seen a VHF/UHF rig before in my life.
    Bought a simple VHF FM radio for 2 mtrs and build a GP antenna for that and designed and build a 4 el vertical yagi and a 10 elements horizontal yagi.
    In 2000 on HF with an A-licence (did my morse code test and got the highest licence in the Netherlands so from 137 kHz - 3 CM or even higher).
    Started on HF 10 mtrs with my old President Lincoln (Uniden HR2600) wich I used on 11 mtrs for years and a vertical antenna and a 5 element homebrew 10mtr monoband Yagi wich I designed both mechanicly and in computer software simulation.
    Bought a FT920 after a while and build about 100 HF/VHF antennas up to now from 10 elements yagi on 2 mtrs to full size 80 mtr verticals and all in between, a few magnetic loops lots of yagis for 10-20 mtrs lots of verticals for 10-80 mtrs monoband dualband triband multy band etc.

    I do not know if the IC9100 has HF in it, if it does it will be good enough for starters on HF.
    Learn about propagation and antenna technology and operating practice, those are the things you need to learn much harder as buying a bigger rig.
    Take good care in picking your TRX you want, you do not want to end up that your IC9100 does perform as good or better as the more expencive new rig.

    I had a few HF rigs and tested many more, and I am only talking HF, I do not care for 6 mtrs and call this the tragic band instead of the magic band hihi.
    VHF , UHF nice for a few QSO's in FM to hams up close , the rest of VHF UHF SHF i do not care at all.

    So for only HF I liked these rigs most in both CW and SSB
    Rig I liked the best was the FT1000MP (with all Yaesu filters installed)(wish I had one hihi)
    This is the rig that alowes me to listen long in SSB and CW because of its very fine RX audio and very low noise RX

    Rigs I also liked
    TS570, TS930, TS950, FT1000MP MK-V, FT920.
    Though all these rigs are very different I like them all about the same.

    FT857D (with 300Hz Collins CW filter) I still like it it a lot, is not very good but it is small, light, cheap and can do a lot, I love this rig for portable use in CW SSB , for use in car on VHF UHF FM, for holidays as HF VHF UHF rig as AM broadcast RX as FM 3m band RX etc and it is my back-up rig for all others I have at home because it is a complete shack in a little box.
    As I said it is not very good at all, but it can do it all.
    And do not think that it is a lot worse as the TS590 at all.

    Rigs on HF I dislike:
    FT450 in big buisy enviroment on big antennas this rig will fail on RX on 160, 80 and 40 mtrs because the RX is not good at all in handeling a lot of strong RX signals in a single band in both SSB and CW, it is even worse as the FT857D though audio quality in SSB TX/RX is very good and much better as with the FT857D.
    FT757 I do not like the RX at all, and do not like the SSB TX audio.
    TS850, TS450, the RX audio and noise from the RX in both CW and SSB gives me a headache after a while listening to them.

    I do not know of IC7410 or any other Icoms it is not my brand, find the effort of LCD and coulor screens a total wast of money, it doesn't do anything for the quality of the RX and TX itself, and modern Yaesus like FTDX3000, FTDX1200 or FTDX5000 , way to many bells and whistles , do not need them at all.
    I just want an easy to use on HF rig with good RX and TX performance good TX and RX audio in only SSB and CW, do not have a computer in the shack, do not watch at a radio but listen to it.

    I do have a TS590 and it has a lot of good points and a few nasty points.
    Things I do like in the TS590:
    Sharp and good filters in the RX, this radio has very good ears and is realy selective.
    It can handle very strong signals on 40 , 80 and 160 mtrs very good, its RX doesn't overload in contest environment.
    CW TX is very good and sounds very good on the station that recieves me.
    SSB TX audio very good and it can be set to every ones voice so it will sound nice even with the provided handmike.

    Things I dislike:
    CW RX audio and DSP noise reduction etc in CW , the radio has good ears but the audio is a bit noisy and the narrow filters ring a bit audio quality is not nice to listen to for long times in CW.
    SSB RX audio, often sounds a bit digital and deformed, though the RX audio in SSB is better as in CW and I can stand it on my ears much better as the noisy SSB RX of the FT857D it doesn't sound as good as the FT1000MP or TS950.

    SSB TX power, it is lacking behind and is low, though the audio quality is very good, it delivers about 3 dB less talk power as my standard factory non tweeked FT857D, though the TX audio quality of the Kenwood is much better.
    If i switch from my TS590 to my old tweeked litle Uniden HR2600/President Lincoln 10 mtr monobander (only 25 watts power) no one can tell any diference in signal strength and no one says the TS590 sounds better , though the TS590 should have 6 dB more power in SSB, the station whom I am talking to will not notice any difference in signal strength or audio quality.
    The little old Uniden sounds different, but as good as the TS590 in SSB.

    If I measure the PEP power of the TS590 delivers 100W PEP , if I measure the Uniden it does 25W PEP.
    If I hook the 2 of them to average power meters (cheap 11 mtr meters or other meters like MFJ, Maas, CTE etc. ) and talk into the microphone of both rigs , both the Uniden and TS590 seem to deliver about the same power in talking and only when I whisle the TS590 the meter will go up to 100W and the Uniden goes to 25W only in whisling.
    it is a shame but I talk to the other stations and do not whistle at them in SSB hihi.

    Patrick, welcome on HF, I wish you loads of fun and good and nice QSO's, but knowledge of antenna systems and performance, operation practice and propagation knowledge will bring you much more joy at the moment as a higher priced rig.

    73's Jos
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  6. AJ4WC

    AJ4WC Ham Member QRZ Page

    Same thing happened to me, sort of. I was trying to decide between the 7410 and possibly the 7600, though I originally excluded the 7600 due to cost. Since I currently have a 7000 and a 7200, I felt the 7410 wasn't enough of an upgrade to justify the cost. The 7600 has a lot of features that appeal to me and I also appreciate the better GUI. It's sort of a 7410 with a better user interface and more features. I'm of the opinion that there's more to a radio than just the receiver specs. The 7600 hasn't arrived yet, but I'm certain I will enjoy it more than I would have the 7410. And, after having my amp for about a year now, I think you made the right decision. I would rather have a nicer radio and no amp, than a lesser radio with amp.
  7. K3LRH

    K3LRH Ham Member QRZ Page

    ....Patrick, since you live in an apartment in Brooklyn, you probably have a lot of RFI sources very close to you. Your choice of what rig to get should probably give high consideration to that. It's been a while since your original posting, so maybe you have chosen a rig already.
  8. KY3W

    KY3W Ham Member QRZ Page

    I've been playing with a new 7600 for a week now. A few minor complaints but overall an impressive rig. I also extensively tested a 7410 around a year ago. I noticed several people I spoke with didn't want to believe the 7410's receiver is very close to the 7600's. But it is. It simply lacks the bells and whistles of the 7600.
  9. KD3NE

    KD3NE Ham Member QRZ Page

    I am shopping for another HF radio so I went to HRO and play with both the IC-7410 and the TS-590 side by side.

    My choice would be the Icom IC-7410. ( in fact going up to HRO and pick one up today )

    Can't wait to sit it on my desk next to my IC-7600 and compare listening to the same signals on my antenna!

    The IC-7410 will be used as my 'portable' RIG and as a secondary station for guest use at my home QTH.

    That's funny!

    I'd venture to say that if you had the best antenna and hooked up an Icom 7000 to and and then hooked up an Icom 7410 ..... you'd have to be blind to not see that the 7410 is the better radio.

    The radio DOES matter !!!!
  10. M0GVZ

    M0GVZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    When it comes to sensitivity most radios are within a few dB of each other. Its when you've strong nearby signals that the differences really start to show. The other difference is how quiet receivers are. I found the Icom 7000 quite noisy compared to a TS480 on a quiet band doing side by side comparisons.
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