Is Pactor IV Legal on 60M?

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by NE3R, Aug 23, 2021.

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  1. NE3R

    NE3R Ham Member QRZ Page

    I was reading through the FT8 thread and the rules seem obvious to me but over 120 responses / 13 pages, I guess it isn't settled for everyone.

    A more interesting question I think is if Pactor IV is legal.

    § 97.305 c has a table and every band where data is allowed there is a note (3), except for 60 meters
    that note refers to § 97.307 f 3, the symbol rate limit of 300 baud

    Since 60 meters does not include this limitation, does that make, Pactor IV legal? Assuming that it is not automated of course.

    Sources:
    47 CFR Part 97 - AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE | CFR | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)
    Part 97 Text (arrl.org)
     
  2. K0IDT

    K0IDT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Legal because it is specifically not allowed? What are you going to use it for if no automated gateways are available? Take a look at Pactor News and you may find an answer to why no one would use it, even if it is legal. How about why no VARA on 60m? Why don't you hear Pactor 3 on 60m? No gateways, no use.
     
    N3AWS and K8XG like this.
  3. W4KYR

    W4KYR Ham Member QRZ Page

    Interesting.

    I've been following these threads about Pactor and Winlink

    ARRL report - No Consensus Reached for FCC on “Symbol Rate” Issues

    Is Winlink a Common Carrier Dodge of For-Fee Commercial Services?
     
  4. W6EM

    W6EM Ham Member QRZ Page

    47CFR97.307(f)(14) In the 60 m band:

    (i) A station may transmit only phone, RTTY, data, and CW emissions using the emission designators and any
    additional restrictions that are specified in the table below (except that the use of a narrower necessary bandwidth
    is permitted):

    60 M BAND EMISSION REQUIREMENTS
    Emission type Emission designator Restricted to:
    Phone......... 2K80J3E .................................... Upper sideband transmissions (USB).
    Data ........... 2K80J2D .................................... USB (for example, PACTOR–III).
    RTTY ......... 60H0J2B .................................... USB (for example, PSK31).
    CW ............ 150HA1A ................................... Morse telegraphy by means of on-off keying.
     
  5. K0IDT

    K0IDT Ham Member QRZ Page

    A little clarification. Legal because it isn't specifically not allowed? I'd blame it on spellcheck, but I just blew it........in a hurry to get out the door.
     
    KX4O likes this.
  6. W6EM

    W6EM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Nah, Ron. You didn't blow it. It seems as though the "kitchen sink" might fall under 2K80J2D. However, the ITU description table suggests more specific definition characters should be added to clarify in the case of digital modes employing multiplex characteristics.
    https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-R/terrestrial/workshops/wrs12/Miscellaneous/Appendix1.pdf
     
  7. N1FM

    N1FM Ham Member QRZ Page

    ARRL wanted 60m for interoperable emcomm use, but I don't think I've never heard a WL gateway on 60m.

    Pactor 3 is specifically allowed on 60m, but... are there any WL Gateways on 60m?

    Good question.

    =

    ARRL/2012

    Digital Operation
    Our expanded privileges on 60 meters were the result of collaboration between the FCC and the NTIA – the National Telecommunications and Information Administration, the agency that manages and coordinates telecommunications activities among US government departments, the primary users of the band. The NTIA expressed concern about possible interference and requested that amateurs limit digital operating to PSK31 and PACTOR III only.

    ==

    ARRL/2020

    Digital Operation
    Asked for and received an FCC waiver to use P3 and P4 on multiple bands for thirty days, during the wildfire and fall hurricane season. FEMA announced an emergency activation, inviting amateurs to participate on channel 1 and 2, with channel 2 set aside specifically for digital comms. I'm not sure if any P3 or P4 comms were employed by amateur stations on 60 meters during that 30 days.
     
  8. K8XG

    K8XG XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    All data must be centered on 1500 on 60 meters, Pac 4 is not yet legally to use in the USA
     
    AA5BK likes this.
  9. N1FM

    N1FM Ham Member QRZ Page

    NTIA also asked us to keep it to Pactor 3, although there's no Baud limit on 60m, and P4 would fit in the 2.8 channel.

    If you center 2400 hz at 1500 hz, where do you end up?

    1500+1200=2700
    1500-1200=300

    300-2700... but NTIA asked us to limit Pactor ops to P3.
     
    KX4O likes this.
  10. K8XG

    K8XG XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    P4 is not legally allowed in USA but is in other areas; that is a fading violet as folks are moving to Vara for a better cost per bit rate...

    The modem manufacture of P3/P4 will be out of business in 5 year due to Vara
     
    AA5BK and NL7W like this.

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