IRLP vs Dstar vs Allstar...Commercialization of Amateur Radio?

Discussion in 'Echolink/IRLP Tech Board' started by AA1PR, Aug 27, 2015.

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  1. KB0OXD

    KB0OXD Ham Member QRZ Page

    The HANDI-HAM Conference Server is PRIME EXAMPLE #1 as to why VoIP systems should be kept UNLINKED during heavy use times (Ever try CHECKING IN on their daily nets ??

    Mind you, this is coming from someone who has CALLED the HandiHam Net there on a few occasions
    The aforementioned history is DOOMED TO REPEAT ITSELF !!! Mark my words

    While I don't believe those who run these systems (Or the servers/gateways on them) should be engaging in ARM TWISTING or BLACKMAIL tactics simply because someone wants to use their iPad to access a VoIP network as those tactics are just uncalled for, I DO NOT believe we need to be engaging in the linking of VoIP systems anymore as there are just WAY WAY WAY too many users now as opposed to 10 years ago when the concept was first introduced

    Just my opinion.....

    Cheers & 73 :)

    Pat
     
  2. KC4SIT

    KC4SIT Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    { However limiting who can access them seems to go against the grain of ham radio if you will.} In my opinion, the ARRL practiced this for years under the guise of stating that an individual was somewhat a sub-standard ham if said individual did not know CW at 18 wpm. Amateur radio lost a whole generation(s) of folks who turned to computers as their hobby and who will never be seen in the ranks of amateur radio. However it still being done under the guise of peddling the need for differing classes of amateur license. The hobby must wake up, otherwise the "continued exclusions enforced" will result in fewer and fewer hams making it easier and easier for the government to auction off "our bands." And the FCC, they won't lose a wink of sleep.

    73, Ernie, KC4SIT
     
    KI4LXB and K6CLS like this.
  3. KC9ZHR

    KC9ZHR Ham Member QRZ Page

    That IS the entire point of all these AMBE dependent modes coming to ham radio in the first place........We all know the types I am talking about. The guys with a monoband beam for every band and more money than they know what to do with. This keeps them from being bothered by us lowly commoners still using analog.

    Just think about it. You FINALLY get a kid interested in ham radio and licensed. Then his broke mom gets him a baofeng for his birthday only for the kid to find out he cant use it on the local dstar/dmr/con-fusion repeater with his elmers. What is that kid going to do?....he is going to chuck the radio, go back to his video game, and forget all about ham radio. But hey the rich guys dont have to put up with the peasant trailer park hams on their repeater so I guess they win. :confused:
     
    KX4O likes this.
  4. AA1PR

    AA1PR Ham Member QRZ Page

    this thread is now so far off topic all is lost

    I give up with all the supercilious attitudes
     
  5. N8MSA

    N8MSA Ham Member QRZ Page

    This is one of the most implausible objections I've ever seen to VHF/UHF DV modes. Where in the United States, with an analog-to-digital repeater ratio of about 15:1, is this going to occur? Nowhere, because DV repeaters are almost always installed to supplement analog repeaters and are being funded by organizations (clubs/ARES/RACES) that need to maintain analog compatibility. Even the privately-owned DV repeaters, in every area I'm familiar with, are islands in a sea of FM and were installed to provide people with alternatives.

    And the "point" of "all of these ABME modes" is simply to do something different. Every amateur is different, and many of us like to experiment and use digital equipment. There is now, today, FM/DMR handhelds that cost about the same as a higher-end 'disposable' handheld and these will be able to be used on D-Star this year...so the cost argument is ringing a little hollow.

    I'm not trying to 'sell' anyone on DV, but realize that we don't all approach the hobby the same way and your financial constraints can't be the limiting factor for the entire hobby...
     
  6. K0RGR

    K0RGR XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Yes, and the hams who lived in apartment buildings were excluded when rotary spark gaps were first introduced.

    You make a good point about excluding the poor kid, though. The AMBE patents are going to expire (some think they already have). When that happens, there are already third party 'reverse-engineered' versions out there, just waiting, and there is even some 'freeware' out there already with AMBE receive capability and no AMBE code or chips involved. Meanwhile, prices on DSTAR rigs have dropped recently - I suspect in response to competition from Yaesu. Kenwood has rumored that they intend to introduce two DSTAR rigs this year, too, in which case the competition will work to further reduce prices.

    Poor kids/hams is one of the reasons I have supported EchoLink for a long time. It gives both those who can't afford a radio and those who live in less urban areas with near-zero two meter activity an opportunity to get on the air via someone else's rig in a more useful location.

    DSTAR is good stuff. I have a new ID-880 here, and I'm listening to a distant DSTAR repeater that is 100 % quiet, but it's so weak I can't even tell there's an RF signal there. If I had just a little better antenna, I could work that repeater from here, and it would open up a much wider coverage area for me. They have an analog repeater that I can barely access from here. Of course, I can get on my local DSTAR repeater and link to that one any time I want. So, yes, DSTAR can be worth the cost.
     
  7. W2NAP

    W2NAP Ham Member QRZ Page

    screw IRLP. let the IRLP control freaks have their circle jerk. I will stick with Allstar.
     
    AA1PR and KC9ZHR like this.
  8. M0FLF

    M0FLF Ham Member QRZ Page

    I have an AllStar / Echolink node here in Yorkshire, England. I applied for and was granted a Notice of Variation (NOV) to be able to make it available to the wider radio community, without an NOV it can only be used by me. There is no other way within 30 miles of my home to be able to get in to AllStar, Echolink or IRLP via RF.

    I discovered VOIP when I was told about Echolink, yes it's on my smartphone but it was an avenue into the hobby for me and others around me.

    I understand the "just use Skype" argument but trying to extort money from people who may have no other means to enjoy their hobby, be it antenna restrictions, financial circumstances or just uncooperative XYL's is just plain odd. My AllStar node cost £100 to set up, it can be accessed from about 20 miles away and will always be free. If more people use it, I can have more QSO's.

    Going down the technical side, IRLP want RF only, fair enough. I was told by the chap that allegedly owns the WIN System that AllStar was welcome on the WIN System but Echolink wasn't, the reasons being that Echolink is not RF and it only uses an 8 bit codec whereas IRLP and AllStar use 16 bit and can only be used via RF. This isn't strictly true, my node has AllStar and Echolink, I can RF into my node and connect it to Echolink so in essence, I'm RF'ing into Echolink, I can also use Zoiper to access my node then connect to the WIN System and I would then be using my phone.

    I regularly use the Hubnet UK (AllStar 41522) and they have all sorts of traffic coming in through AllStar, Echolink, IRLP, D-Star, DMR and Fusion bridges. No one gives a hoot what device you are using, be it a £1000 radio, a £600 iPhone or a £10 Baofeng 888s, the system is there for conversation and it's amazing how many people come in first on Echolink on their smartphone, learn more and end up with their own node.... I did.

    There is far too much snobbery in this hobby and asking people to spend money using a system that limits who they can speak to is just plain wrong.

    Save the 120 dollars, buy or build your own AllStar/Echolink node and just enjoy.

    Please feel free to connect to my node anytime on any device of your choosing. AllStar 42483 or Echolink 2E0FLF-L usually connected to the Hubnet UK

    73 Craig 2E0FLF
     
    4X1ST likes this.
  9. K0RGR

    K0RGR XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Another way around the problem is to go with a 'micronode'. Those solutions are far from cheap, but make IRLP available to those who have a radio, but no convenient local IRLP repeater.

    Cross connections between all the VoIP modes are becoming more common through use of a common gateway link system. There are problems - noisy analog signals do not translate well into digital voice, because DV is not like broadcast digital audio that captures the entire spectrum. It actually recognizes certain 'phonemes' in the voice, and converts those into data, which is in turn used to operate a voice synthesizer on the receiving end.
     
  10. KA9JLM

    KA9JLM Ham Member QRZ Page

    You should not use big words like that on QRZ.

    Are you trying to cause more brain damage ?
     

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