IRLP vs Dstar vs Allstar...Commercialization of Amateur Radio?

Discussion in 'Echolink/IRLP Tech Board' started by AA1PR, Aug 27, 2015.

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  1. AA1PR

    AA1PR Ham Member QRZ Page

    Not sure what the attitude is about allstar or an allstar node ?

    Seems the IRLP, Dstar, allstar & let's not forget echolink dont play well together, sadly.

    Last Sunday with the help of my friend Bernie W1BFC we installed my allstar micro node configurations and had it on the air.

    Two days ago I checked in unknowingly into the east coast reflector allstar node# 27339 where there was a net in progress via my tablet with zoiper. Honestly I had no idea non radio devices were not allowed, immediately I was reprimanded. I accepted my warning as understandable.

    All I knew prior to this was that node 27339 was a place for east coast stations to connect, nothing about IRLP etc.

    Again I was reprimanded the following day when I explained to AB2OR what odd experience I encountered the night before.

    I agree there are too many appliance users in the hobby, trying to diffuse the situation, however it seems my opinion regarding IRLP sparked some bad feelings.

    From my understandings the designer of IRLP doesn't like other modes having connectivity with IRLP over claims that echolink let an unlicensed operator access.

    Personally I don’t believe we as amateur’s should use a technology where we pay for its services, whether that be software, access etc.

    Yesterday on the 27339 node I heard others commenting about the difficulty of the usb adapter in a joking manner after I cleared off, I have forgetten who it was that inquired about my micro node, so funny I think not. With some additional comments referencing Daryl from the old Bob Newhart show & VT, appalling if they are that supercilious.

    Yes it is correct that these connected links have sweat, blood and tears invested into their systems. However limiting who can access them seems to go against the grain of ham radio if you will.

    Every system by technology per se seems to have a chip on their shoulder. I’m better than you, which I find appalling along with so many other hams I’ve talked to about this.

    I checked into one node that promptly advised me of their website that states if you want to remain a part of the system it’ll cost you $120 per year, great if I was going to use it all the time

    In the past we as amateurs invest in our station whether it be HF gear etc. However there seems to be this fad that you are above the rest of the crowd if you have this technology or system as opposed to the average ham.

    I’ll get off my soapbox for now, but I find this arrogant supercilious attitude sickening, QRT.


    I also posted this on the ARRL forum ~ http://www.arrl.org/forum/topics/view/1531
     
    N6NNI and KC9ZHR like this.
  2. KB4QAA

    KB4QAA XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I'm not familiar with Allstar.

    However, it is perfectly legal for VHF/UHF repeater operators to require paid membership and have closed use.

    I don't see why computer based services would be any different, particularly if they are not actually 'over the air".

    Repeaters or remote transmitters must always be protected in ways to keep the unlicensed public from being able to transmit.
     
    KI5WW likes this.
  3. KC9ZHR

    KC9ZHR Ham Member QRZ Page

    *warning hot button topic*............basically IRLP allstar & echolink can all be made to work together at a technological level using allstar/asterisk as the means of making them work together BUT the IRLP crowd is/can be total control freaks about not having the ability to drill down and see what other nodes are connected to yours if yours is not IRLP.

    We looked into having the ability to have IRLP on our allstar repeater and it amounted to a certain price per year (not a big deal) but also giving them permanent root SSH access to our allstar node.....NOT going to happen.

    now in your particular case its their system and they can do what they want which is fine.

    In the long run IRLP, Dstar, DMR and the rest of the closed networks(not the radios), and the others are going to die on the vine anyway as things move more towards open source and open platforms. Even Echo-stink has been pushing their luck lately about how they want to be connected to repeaters etc and the only reason they are still around is because it is easy for the old timers to setup on their iphones. Our hobby does not have the room to be able to move forward AND be fragmented into a dozen different vendor lock-in systems be it via the networks or $600 radios all with AMBE digital vocoder chips that wont talk to each other.

    before too long its all going to be SIP traffic with client applications that will amount to a softphone with a push-to-talk button anyway.

    AA1PR feel free to stop by our repeater anytime ( KC9ZHV allstarnode 41715 ) where we are more than open to forward thinking technologies :)

    I know I probobly started a flame war but like I said its a hot button topic.....anyway 73's have a good day to all :)
     
    KM4OYP and AA1PR like this.
  4. K0RGR

    K0RGR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    EchoLink also forbids attachment of other Voip networks to their system. There are some 'experimental' conferences where many of these things are linked, but I don't know the details. There are nets and conferences where you will hear all three flavors.

    Europeans have come up with a DSTAR-DMR gateway, and it would be nice if we could link our nets to each other.
     
  5. AA1PR

    AA1PR Ham Member QRZ Page

    if the internet ever goes down so do these links

    DMR is amazing & thinking I might make my allstar node digital sometime in the future if its allowed
     
  6. KC9ZHR

    KC9ZHR Ham Member QRZ Page

    dont confuse the DMR radio with the DMR network......allstar will interface with most commercial radios via a URI & URI cable using the 16 pin connector on the radio, at that point its just audio. But you would just link your node to any other allstar node as usual.

    the DMR network is like the allstar network except it takes faily expensive "gateway" bridges to access the netwok which allows a whole bunch of neat things but is not worth it to me.......
    here is a good explanation ....for my money I will just stick to the allstar or similar network.
     
    KB0MNM and AA1PR like this.
  7. AA1PR

    AA1PR Ham Member QRZ Page

    Thanks I'll stop by from time to time
    73
     
  8. K0EED

    K0EED XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I have had an IRLP node in Fargo for over 10 years. To me the best part of IRLP is Radio in Radio out. I can't speak for the guys who own the East Coast reflector but I do know that is why they prefer IRLP. My node is echoirlp however it started out as only IRLP and I don't have the echolink side of it up and running. Nothing against echolink but I prefer the same thing in that I know users coming into my node which is on my repeater in Fargo are using a radio. Not a computer, or a phone but a vhf,uhf radio on there end.

    My thoughts are if you want to talk using a computer use skype, or if you want to talk on a phone use a phone to talk to others using a phone. But if you want to talk to others on a amateur radio repeater owned by someone else and they say access is limited to users who are using a amateur radio equipment seems like a reasonable request. I didn't get my ticket so I could use my cell phone to talk on my repeater.

    To each his own I guess.
     
    K4AGO likes this.
  9. KV6O

    KV6O Ham Member QRZ Page

    Closed systems are nothing new. Who should pay for this stuff? Is it fair to expect a person or club provide a repeater for free to anyone who wants to use it? Sure, there are lots that ARE available for free, but should hams just expect that everything is free? Software, repeaters, clubs, etc? How is that "going against the grain"?

    I understand you want them to be free to access, but like you said, if someone puts their blood, sweat, money into something - anything, we can't just expect them to give it away. Yet many do, and we're lucky for it. Count your blessings, rather than find something to be angry at! :D

    Steve
    KV6O
     
  10. AA1PR

    AA1PR Ham Member QRZ Page

    well my allstar node has been up & running for over 3 months now & we have regulars from all parts of the country that regularly connect & stay connected (vermontallstar.boards.net)

    no one asks anyone for donations, we all know the expense associated with such & accept the inherit risks

    I put my system in place to be used & justify its expense by the fact that folks are actually enjoying the system

    our conversations are really enjoyable & the topics vary like the weather

    this is what ham radio is about

    & why would you want to exclude anyone that cant have an antenna up at their qth by not allowing other technologies, at least they are coming out on RF & thats the end goal

    allstar node#42282 or 42353 or aa1pr-L on echolink all are welcome, so stop by some time
     
    JOHNKOBECK likes this.

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