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I Am Not Making This Up

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by N2EY, Jan 9, 2018.

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  1. W3WN

    W3WN Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yeah, well it is good to get home once in a while. Even if I can’t place the accent or country of origin... it is pretty strange, anymore, to have someone else pump gas. I’m just so used to doing it myself.

    But unlike “the good old days”, that’s all that they do. No offers to clean the windshield, check the tires, check under the hood... I remember all of that too. On my last trip, the poor guy was moving between 5 or 6 cars at the gas station. Only 2 had NJ plates, and he kept arguing with some woman from one of the other vehicles that he was NOT allowed to let her touch the nozzle. (I think his accent was from somewhere in eastern EU, but I wouldn’t swear to it). Had a very surreal feel to it.

    And they don’t even give away a single S&H Greenstamp, either. (Which will be someone’s cue to explain that S&H Greenstamps don’t exist anymore, and so on and so forth)

    But, the next time I head home to see Mom mid-week, I’ll take an extra day off work, so I don’t have to hurry back. I haven’t been inside a Pathmark in years... and I remember when they split off from Shop-Rite, which is really dating myself. That, and I have to see if I can find a good bagel place that is NOT named Bruggers or another national chain...
     
  2. N2EY

    N2EY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Ah, now I understand.

    Seems to me the reason is what @WB2WIK wrote: The pumps are set to shut off at low pressure, and they do not "top off".

    I suspect this is because there's usually one attendant for a whole bunch of pumps, and they are terrified of a spill.

    PA has one of the highest state gasoline taxes in the country, NJ one of the lowest. Hence the difference.

    I suspect that NJ manages to keep its gas taxes so low because they have an interesting situation:

    First, huge numbers of out-of-state folks go through NJ on the toll roads - NJ Turnpike, Garden State Parkway, Atlantic City Expressway. Those out-of-state folks buy NJ gasoline, pay NJ gas taxes - but then use the gasoline on toll roads that are maintained by the tolls.

    Second, huge numbers of out-of-state folks arrive in NJ with nearly-empty tanks and leave with nearly-full tanks. IOW, they buy NJ gas and take it home with them, where it is burned on other states' roads.

    Third, NJ is surrounded by states with much higher gasoline prices....PA, NY, CT, and maybe DE. Which helps the second factor.

    I make the trip to Pittsburgh a few times a year. The cheapest gas location varies, in my experience, but it's never near a major urban area, because of the pollution laws.

    73 de Jim, N2EY
     
    KC3BZJ likes this.
  3. N2EY

    N2EY Ham Member QRZ Page

    I think it has to start with one basic concept/mindset. I think we, as a society and as individuals, have to do more long-term thinking and less short-term thinking. And we have to turn that thinking into action.

    History gives us plenty of examples of where something was done with little regard for the long-term effects. The Hudson River was uses as a waste dump for decades - industries all along the river just dumped all sorts of chemicals into the river, thinking they'd just go out to sea. It has taken decades to clean up that mess, and cost far more than it would have cost to properly dispose of the waste.
     
  4. N2EY

    N2EY Ham Member QRZ Page

    None of which proves there isn't adequate work.

    Look at how the labor participation rate is defined:

    https://www.thebalance.com/labor-force-participation-rate-formula-and-examples-3305805
     
  5. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    That all sounds great.

    The problem is that human lives tend to span decades. During those decades, each individual has experiences that tend to create biases in their thinking. Brand loyalty. Political loyalty. Family loyalty. Career choices. Education choices. And as a result, they will make and continue to make choices based on those biases, because they know that everybody else is doing the same thing.

    Problems that exist today have effects that will last for the next eight decades or more. As a result, any positive changes you make today are going to require decades of patience in order for those positive changes to be accepted by each generation. People aren't going to give up greed tomorrow. You can pass all the laws you want, but it won't happen. Just ask former Soviet citizens. Or current Venezuelan citizens. People are also not going to give up on capitalism tomorrow. Nor their prejudices about how to measure the value of the labor of others. People can't change career paths overnight. They can't change them at all if they don't have a way to support themselves and their families while they retrain.

    As I have said before, proofs are for mathematicians. Everywhere else, the best you can do is examine the evidence, and decide for yourself what conclusions they support.

    What I do know first hand (which is proof to me) is that I have numerous times watched one person automate away the jobs of several other people, and it can be done in a very short time. You can automate away jobs a lot faster than you can retrain those people to do something else of similar income, especially if the displaced people are in high-tech. You can even automate away jobs faster than the displaced workers can decide what career to chase next. I know this is true, because I have watched it happen in real time. You may not have, so what I say may or may not satisfy your personal standard of evidence. But I know it to be true, because in my case, the evidence is conclusive. I just don't have a way to document that for you in a way that will be conclusive to you. That doesn't make it untrue.

    There's a logical component to this, as well. If the population of the world is growing, but automation is reducing the number of people required to get required tasks done, the necessary outcome is that a rapidly increasing portion of the population will have nothing to do. Their labor is, by definition, simply not needed.

    That leads to people trying to compete (cost-wise) with automated processes directly, which leads to high-tech sweat-shops where people do highly-technical work, but are paid nearly nothing. When a machine can do something cheaply, the only way for you to compete with the machine is to do the same job more cheaply.
     
  6. W3MMM

    W3MMM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Whew!

    I'm glad that's all settled. Let's go have a beer and enjoy the weekend!
     
    WZ7U likes this.
  7. W3WN

    W3WN Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yes, and one of these days, you’re going to have to give me advance notice. The least I can do is buy you a cup of coffee.

    If you have extra time for the scenic trip, get off the Pa Turnpike at Harrisburg and take US 22 westbound the rest of the way in. You’ll do about 90 minutes winding through the mountains (such as they are) going through the rural area between Harrisburg and Altoona, but once you hit Altoona, 22 is a four lane divided highway with just a handful of traffic lights east of Murrysville. Beautiful scenery most of the way, And not tolls, which just went up (AGAIN) and are getting outrageous...
     
  8. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    I'm going to have to pass on the beer, since I'm busy building an antenna at the moment, but I'm way ahead of you on the "enjoy the weekend" part. ;)
     
  9. W2AI

    W2AI XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Now if we could only find a way to convert water into gasoline--we'd be billionaires!!

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    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  10. N2EY

    N2EY Ham Member QRZ Page

    However, those biases can and do change.

    Yet we have adapted to rapid change in the past. We have installed checks and balances - some of which have been removed. We have grown the middle class enormously. We have reduced - but not eliminated - racism, sexism, ethnic and religious biases, and more. There's still a lot to be done, but things have changed.

    Proofs are for many more than mathematicians.

    You stated an opinion as a fact. But it's just an opinion.

    Sure. But that does NOT prove that there isn't enough work for everyone to have a decent job. It does NOT prove that every job is just a clever hack away from elimination.

    You are stating an opinion as fact.

    I have seen mechanization and automation eliminate jobs too. All sorts of jobs. But I have also seen new fields that never existed before create new jobs. And I have seen many jobs that have not yet been mechanized or eliminated. There may be fewer bank tellers than 50 years ago, but there are still lots of banks and bank tellers.

    Only if nothing else changes. No new products, no new industries, no new services, no improvements in anyone's quality of life.

    It has always been that way.

    We can, however, move towards thinking more long-term. We can change the rules so that immediate greed doesn't work so well. We can change the idea that minimum wage isn't supposed to be a living wage.

    If we want to.

    But there is one more factor: Manipulation from above. I've seen that happen too. People carefully manipulated, by lying "leaders", into voting and acting against their own best interests. People who should be allies divided and set against each other, for the profit of a few. The Big Lie technique of stating untruths over and over. And much more.

    Ask the folks at Carrier whose jobs are going to Mexico.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
    N5PZJ likes this.
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