HR2.0 - M17 Project - New Ham Radio Digital Mode

Exactly. I asked him to use email rather than a public forum. Nada.

IF someone can tell us the planned advantages of M17, to the END USER, I would be grateful for that insight.

73
Chip W1YW

 

Man up, for goodness sake.

Ask the devs directly.

 

Nope. This is a public topic. It is a pertinent and relevant question to pose, and frankly posed reasonably and sincerely, considering M17 is posted as relevant to the greater ham community on the Zed.

You may disagree. Note:

M17 Project - New Ham Radio Digital Mode

Clearly it is a fair assumption that others would show some interest in M17 if its planned advantages were forthcoming on the forum(s) it publicity is promulgated. Such as here.

Have a great evening.

73
Chip W1YW

 

Ham radio is like Linux. People feel there needs to be 15 ways to do it. So the resources are broken up into 15 areas instead of focused on a couple. This leads to finished product that works really well (for the most part).

As far as the prepper comments. Why would a prepper use DMR? It is tied to the internet and one of the things hams tout is being there when all other comms are down. So if the internet is down, you have a UHF radio. I much rather sink my money into a portable repeater than all the DMR hot spots and such. Just something I wonder about and yet had a prepper answer.

 

A radio amateur is not an end user of ready-made telecommunication devices.
A radio amateur is not an end user of ready-made telecommunication devices.
A radio amateur is not an end user of ready-made telecommunication devices.

Even if it is a part of the daily practice mainly (but not exclusively) for the FM and digital modes/networks for several reasons.

Therefore your hazy "free competition between proprietary and open source development" idea, and the "let the best win" are more than inapplicable, as well as all the efforts trying to prove these points from here and there. I must say (by those comments here, so it can be relative) that you still don't understand the basic principles of being a ham, and the delicate relation with "the proprietary" in this hobby. And you told me when I tried to clear the concepts that you won't mire in the mud.

 

To be at the HF bands is quiet different. But the digital way is to "easy". And when only a computer is needed anymore for to do some trouble, intruders will be there. And when the access to the protected systems just with a computer is open, there is no need for to have the original transceivers anymore. So all digital systems will be reduced to be like a worldwide GMRS radio, with only a computer at home. When the M17 system will be developed for to be independent and to be something like Echolink its ok. But with the MMDVM module and in interaction with the other systems, it will cause more damage than anything else.

 

I wish it offered more than the flexibility of not being tied to a hardware vocoder chip. This is important for folks building bridges to other modes and reflectors. Sadly to make it hopefully happen in this century its still using a 4 level FSK style modulation instead of something QAM or ? The logic behind keeping it 4FSK, is maybe we can make a radio that supports it just by re-writing an existing radios firmware.

Again if you are just an end user then you likely don't care about these (vocoder) limitations and likely aren't contributing back to the hobby in a technical manner anway.

 

Going back to FDMA, when the repeater pairs are already unobtainium in some places, is frankly just silly.

 

"I am not a network node! I am a human being!" -The Elephant Ham

Seriously, folks, how many incompatible digital modes can "compete" before the market--excuse me, hobby--is completely fragmented, and almost nobody can figure out how to talk to anybody else anymore. Digital Babel. Nobody wins. That has already happened to HF keyboard chat modes, even before the FT8 juggernaut plowed over everything.

Any new digital voice protocol has to offer the regular users something new, desireable, and significant, or it won't be adopted outside the circle of true believers. Right now, we have several reasonably functional protocols that can be routed over the Internet, so we can participate in a national net or talk to Outer Slobbovnia on our handhelds. I like that.

But apart from that, digital voice doesn't have a huge advantage over analog FM. See "digital cliff." DStar and Fusion are (relatively) easy to use, but have primarily been cash cows for their sponsoring radio manufacturers. DMR gave some very smart people the challenge of taking something completely alien to amateur radio and making it work for us on Chinese radios we can actually afford--if we dare mount the learning curve and the constant universe-changing updates. Outside of the international channels and nets, much of the digital voice traffic I hear consists of people trying to get their radios to work.

Perhaps our resident coding geniuses could get together, leave their egos at the door, and come up with something that served a purpose we could all get behind. Perhaps in concert with ARRL, RSGB and other international societies. And perhaps with the radio manufacturers, who get to share in the benefits, but not to make a proprietary killing. And perhaps we could have world peace. But I digress...

 

Ok, so I am already using System Fusion, D-Star, and DMR and after reading the entire protocol section of the M17 website I don't get what's the point of putting more resources in yet another mode just because it is open-source and uses an open source codec that is patent free. FreeDV is already doing the same and is using Codec2 just like M17, so I don't really see the point. FreeDV has working software and devices available for sale for those who don't want to use a computer to generate it and could use more attention and resources.
The only thing I see as a major difference so far is that FreeDV has a focus on enabling digital voice HF communications and M17's list of supported and tested radios suggests it is more aimed at VHF/UHF at least at this stage, but there's nothing stopping FreeDV from being used on higher frequencies as in the tests on the QO-100 satellite.

 

M17 may bee No17 mode? what about N015, 16?

 

It is a sad, sad aspect of some of the responders on the Zed that when a reasonable question is asked--what end user benefits M17 poses-- the individual asking is attacked. One may only conclude there ARE no benefits to the end user with M17.

Watch out--they may go after you next.

73
Chip W1YW

 

I don't understand--does this mean you want me to hand the HT to my wife, or the dog?? The AMAZON delivery guy (now at the door)?

If I am not an end user then no one is.

 

Exactly.