How many ham systems use compression?

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by KX4Z, Sep 6, 2019.

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  1. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    I don't understand Ron. I've tried in various ways to be friendly but it hasn't clicked at all So I just politely ask him to explain things, and then see what he says. He obviously knows a great deal. I've tried to give him due credit everwhere possible --- thanks to real work on his part, WINLNK got cleared up a ton. His real concern all along has been primarily with TECHNIQUES , not systems. However, people instantly came alongside him and barked up the tree of SYSTEMS and that forced winlink to respond. [In the beginning, I didn't grasp the difference between SYSTEMS and TECHNIQUES (for which some people use the words "mode" or "protocol."]

    The result was useful!!! A huge cleanup of winlink client hams has occurred (and I hope will continue to occur) A bunch of MYTHS have been flushed out. People who make utterly false statements that are BELIEVED have been called on it, right and left. There are many things happening behind the scenes now. The ARRL "stepped in it " but not as badly as they might have. I sense that some on their Board may be beginning to get a better grasp of all this stuff.

    Right this morning, before my friends descend on my house to build end-fed-baluns [16 neat baggies of parts line my kitchen now for them] I am working on the last really bothersome bug in my code --- the inability to handle an FC EM transfer proposal that was split across TWO radio packets, instead of being transmitted as a whole line. This happens when speed levels are really low, and so the number of bytes that can be transferred in one radio packet is limited. I didn't recognize that risk with the earliest code.

    All my code is being stored on qsl.net/Tech/......... Eventuallyl there will certainly be a github account. The one i used to have somehow disappeared.....
     
  2. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    When I get the decoding to a suitable stopping point, I'll turn all of my attention to the CAPTURE portion. I have a nice shiny loaner DRAGON sitting on my dining room table waiting on me, to compare to my older personally-owned one [I bought it to assist the SHARES people with a gateway in THEIR system....I was their second gateway in Florida...there are now 5 and I see very little traffic] In order to do any CAPTURE experiments, I have to either use, or shut down, my own gateway to protect the receivers involved. That has put me at a bit of a disadvantage, but not a large one. Either way....progress is being made, and Ron should be jumping for joy at all the people he has working on the very things he was demanding all along. I make the assumption that he really wanted, what he said he did. There are lots of things happening that I'm not at liberty to speak about just yet.

    I'm not anywhere close to as convinced that some of the people who have been proponents of RM-11831 actually wanted what the stated purposes of the petition were. I think (cannot prove!!) that many of those persons had a different agenda. Don't know that for sure....but when I am busy accomplishing WHAT THEY SAID NEEDED TO BE DONE.....I am *not* seeing appreciatiation and HELP pouring out from them. Rather I see attempts to criticize.

    Thats life.

    Gordon
     
  3. W6EM

    W6EM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Gordon, you just try and try to avoid the obvious.

    Better you spend your time studying the Enigma. It's older than me by a long shot. Translation tables are a no-no, according to our FCC. Unless it is ASCII or Baudot, it isn't legal. And, if you Huffmanize it, well, you've just created a time varying translation table. And, one that doesn't fit without a lot of work to unassemble the translation table. LZHUF's a crude lock pick, if not a keyfinder.

    Take a long, deep breath (of air, not some of your other gases) and read 97.309 very carefully. There's no Huffman Code listed. Say "good-bye."

    And, it doesn't matter if someone pulled the wool over the French communications authority 50 years ago. We are governed by FCC regulations.
     
  4. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    Unfortunately, what you wrote is absolutely complete nonsense. You just don't grasp how those sysetms work, and you don't understand the meaning of the allowed "codes". All these systems use ASCII. Just all wet. Comletely. The proofs include: FT8, JS8, among many many others.
     
  5. WB6CXC

    WB6CXC Ham Member QRZ Page

    If this is determined to be true I just might give up my ham license in disgust. That would be a tragic ruling.
     
  6. W6EM

    W6EM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Really? I must take a look. Your "definition" of what ASCII is should be accompanied by a table of 7 bit bytes that should be invariant in transmission. Using a tool that converts any of the binary values into some other values constitutes encryption, my friend. Plain and simple.

    You really need to take a deep breath. All this work you are doing to pass off software-generated translation tables for characters, punctuation, etc., will be fruitless. Besides, as I've said before and I'll say it again. Maybe a 30% improvement in overall throughput by shortening the character bit length. It matters not in ham radio, but made sense where entities have to pay per byte and per unit of time. Take a look at your cellphone and what and how it prices your service. "Compression" probably makes sense there, but not where we are required to use one of the codes as defined in 309(a)1., 2., or 3. And, that means transmitted using only one of those codes, not some translated adaptation of them. Very easy to understand. Actually "compression" was a very poor word choice for what Huffman treeing constitutes. It's more accurately a "translation." And, one that changes depending on the characters and symbols used in the body of the message, as adapted by Winlink. So, each time a new message is sent, a new translation table is created for the alphabet. Perhaps a lot closer to the Enigma than you'd like to admit.....

    73.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
  7. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    Driving over to where all of us are meeting, I realized I left out a bit, you have to understand part 4;that is why all of the systems are legal, they are technically specified making them specified codes.

    It is utter and complete silliness to claim that FT eight is illegal.
     
  8. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    None of it is true, he just doesn’t understand any of it.
     
  9. W6EM

    W6EM Ham Member QRZ Page

    I am curious about the format of the Huffman bytes in the first frame or so.
    "Part 4?" Please cite accurately. FCC regulations only, kind sir. Subparagraph 4 qualifies use of GTOR, CLOVER and PacTor as "techniques" to transmit any of the codes in the paragraph. Those are ASCII, Baudot, and AMTOR. I didn't see Huffmanized content listed as an acceptable code.......

    If you mean "309(b)," that gives permission to use such a "translated" standard code (referred to by the FCC as an UNSPECIFIED code) in VHF spectrum and above. At least the last time I looked. It doesn't open the door for HF use.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
  10. W6EM

    W6EM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Oh, I see. I don't understand the Huffman process and how it works? Go ahead, and dismiss it. I was going to ask you where the Huffman Tree is located in each Winlink message, but not sure you understand what the "tree" is. Or, you choose to ignore its translation properties.
     
    K0IDT likes this.
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