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How many ham systems use compression?

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by KX4Z, Sep 6, 2019.

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  1. DL6MAA

    DL6MAA Ham Member QRZ Page

    As the Winlink USER starts a Winlink session, the USER has to look if the channel is free.
    The modems have a very sensitive "channel busy" detector (CBD) using FFT's etc...
    The Winlink client software "Winlink Express" utilizes that CBD information and
    explicitly asks the user if she/he really wants to continue...
    If the user clicks to "continue", it's the sole responsibility (and bad behavior!) of the user...
    So maybe such bad behavior should somehow be sanctioned...

    Of course it's possible that the user does not hear any traffic on the channel but the server will
    cause QRM to some on-going QSO's (the client cannot receive). Nevertheless, MOST trouble
    could be avoided if the users would always carefully watch the channels and not override the
    CBD information...

    73 de Peter
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
    KX4O likes this.
  2. N8OHU

    N8OHU Ham Member QRZ Page

    I know that, you know that, and so does the Winlink Development Team, but this particular individual wants to put the entire blame for QRM on the server when it's a shortcoming of the busy channel detection that could be fixed.
     
  3. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    Lots and lots of things good for ham radio (probably in the eyes of people on all sides) are happening in the wings right now. Not quite ready for announcement, but close. These are attempts to help, not I am indebted to everyone who is doing REAL WORK to improve things as we speak. That is much more useful than bickering. We have apparently demonstrated that some things work, which few people even believed, because of the complexity of the issue. Progress is likely to speed up even more now, as a larger and larger team of people who know what they are doing, (not some crappy beginner, like ME) are coming alongside to fix issues. i have now found a way to create realistic testing scenarios at will, which speeds up the development and evauation cycle by ORDERS of magnitude over what I struggled with last weekend. Peter is accomplishing miracles on his side of the ocean. THIS IS THE WAY HAM RADIO IS SUPPOSED TO WORK. Collaborative, cooperative. Finally starting to happen on this issue.

    Getting the facts right is the first part of any serious endeavor. We are still struggling with that, with a few folks. I'll probably make another disclosure to the FCC or others today or tomorrow, to keep them up to speed on all that is happening. This is apparently more progress in 5 weeks than was made in 19 years. And it is because of a bunch of people who are cooperating together to make it happen.

    Gordon
    Who knows for certain even if the indivual knows what he is hearing? In my work out in a hot and humid Florida afternoon in an un-airconditionned truck, I heard ALE on the frequency, pactor calls barely discernible, and another loud signal that I didn't even recognize. It might have been Olivia but I am totally unsure. There are a bunch of waveforms and I only recognize the common ones. Some people may not even be able to tell the difference between an ALE sounding, and a pactor or ardop call. Unless they can provide real data....you just don't know what to do with it. That's why I produced the statistical study that demonstrated their complaints about USA WINLINK 97.221(c) stations were pure bunk.
     
  4. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    In my experience, i don't think I remember very many signals OTHER THAN WINLINK identifying in morse code...... I don't think ALE identifies in morse code.....y'all correct me if I'm wrong, it has been a while since I fired up ALE. And I kknow very little about the HF BBS business......do they ID in morse code???
     
  5. K0IDT

    K0IDT Ham Member QRZ Page



    Hey Matthew, you can start by fixing this, WA5QLZ tried. Ooops, 12 years later and "busy channel detection" is now forced in software? I wonder why the sudden change?

    >>From: wl2kemcomm@yahoogroups.com
    >[mailto:wl2kemcomm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wa5lqz
    >Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:41 PM
    >To: wl2kemcomm@yahoogroups.com
    >Subject: [wl2kemcomm] Re: Comments about RM-11392
    >
    >Steve k4cjx and WDT
    >
    >How are chances of the auto busy detection being
    >tried again for the PMBOs. This would go a long
    >way in showing our desire to cooperate with other
    >users. If it draws interference again
    >then at least we have tried to get along.
    >
    >This seems to be a major issue in my area.
    >
    >Thanks
    >Alan wa5lqz

    >Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 17:38:30 -0600
    >Subject: RE: [wl2kemcomm] Re: Comments about RM-11392
    >Reply-To: wl2kemcomm@yahoogroups.com
    >
    >Rick, All,
    >
    >IT was attempted with the old Winlink system.
    >However, malicious interference on a continual
    >basis kept the auto-start stations from
    >transmitting and it was therefore
    >eliminated. Things are even worse today on the
    >Ham bands and I have absolutely NO confidence
    >that busy signal detection will be successful
    >regardless of the technical merits.
    >>
    >Steve, k4cjx
     
    KA4DPO likes this.
  6. KA4DPO

    KA4DPO Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Here we are, dancing around the fire some more and always arriving at the same place.

    WINLINK is an internet gateway that, when coupled with a modem, allows digital transmission over the amateur HF airwaves. The SCS modems currently in use are set up for the PACTOR IV mode which is, technically, illegal on US amateur bands under the current rules for several reasons that have been beaten to death.

    This protocol can not be monitored by other amateurs, even if they have an SCS modem, I am not convinced they can not see the exchanges in their entirety, or in real time. No one has actually confirmed this with a solid answer, just more tap dancing.

    I am also quite convinced that since WINLINK forms a gateway to the WWW, there is no way for anyone, except the initiator of the traffic, to know where it originated, also illegal on US amateur radio bands under the current rules.

    I hate to kick peoples rice bowls off of the table, I realize a lot of amateurs, many in the US, make a good bit of money off of this slick little arrangement, but that too is a no no.

    Lastly, someone commented about did I get my radio for free. Of course not, but all amateur radio operators have a radio, and only a very small minority do not own a computer. The simple fix for this is for ARSFI to transition to open source code that can be decoded on any computer using a simple interface. That would certainly go a long way in making the FCC happy. As for speed? I could send this entire post in under 5 seconds at a very narrow bandwidth. So if Email (sailmail) is the big driver, which it is, then why the need for blistering data rates?

    I stand ready for the onslaught of insults and more dancing.
     
    NL7W likes this.
  7. N8OHU

    N8OHU Ham Member QRZ Page

    And I've pointed out several open source implementations of what Winlink does in previous threads, and I think several of the are mentioned in the first post in this thread. No, there isn't yet a GUI version of the decoding application, that I know of, but I'm sure it will be available fairly soon.

    Sure, point to decade old comments from someone that no longer operates an RMS, instead of thinking that maybe, just maybe, he doesn't have the influence on the system operators that you think he does. Rick has implemented busy channel detection in both modes he developed, and source for the latter (ARDOP) is available in both C and VB.NET versions to examine. I even started to port an early version of it to C#.
     
  8. K0IDT

    K0IDT Ham Member QRZ Page

    The problem is systemic Matthew, along with the lousy attitudes. If you could see some of the stuff I'm not allowed to comment on you would have a quite different view. If Steve isn't as influential as you say then why is he part of
    some current significant email chains along with W3QA?
     
  9. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    Simple Questions:
    1. When did Mr. Roubelat write the FCC?
    2. Have you read this document on the "modulation/compression" used by Pactor IV: http://www.p4dragon.com/download/PACTOR-4 Protocol.pdf ?
    3. If you have read that 42 page disclosure and still find it inadequate, can you cite with quotes exactly which sentence(s) and/or paragraphs you feel are incorrect or inadequate?
    4. Can you explain what experiments you have made to cause you to believe that Mr. Helfert is totally wrong in his statement that the modem can read P4? -- or did I misunderstand your view?

    Those are fairly straightforward questions, I believe.
     
  10. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page


    Since this gentleman has not answered, when asked quite simple questions about his assertions, I don't feel like satisfying him with detailed responses. I'll just explain that all of them are false, and that he appears to be making a criminal or violative allegation without any support against unspecified persons. Consider whether you find that acceptable behavior....
     
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