HOA's Take Aim at Our Hobby!

I don't agree with the emcom approach to getting this bill through. Yes, it is in fact one aspect of what we do on occasion, but I feel there is way too much emphasis placed on it as a way to justify the installation of amateur radio antennas in HOAs.

I feel we should be able to install antennas on it's on merits. Amateur radio is an educational and technical hobby many people enjoy. We don't really need any kind of justification other than this to validate our existence really.

However, with that said, let me get to the point I quoted you in your posting.

The problem with these restrictions is they are pretty much written in a way that hams are not able to work with an HOA to change them.

You have to understand the HOA really doesn't have the authority, or the power to change these land use deed restrictions. They can only enforce them as they are originally written by the land developer. The other issue that often comes up is a matter of liability. Basically, if an HOA is not actively enforcing the restrictions as they are written, other paying members can actually sue the HOA for not enforcing the deed restrictions.

This mostly explains why HOAs take the position of "NO" to everything and anything, and this is done as a way to protect themselves from lawsuits and liability.

In some cases things can be done by a vote with the membership, however, the odds of becoming successful are rare, because an extremely large majority of the HOA membership must approve the antenna by vote. Even if you should get to this stage of the game, this unanimous consensus almost never happens. It's like putting a hundred people in the same room, and expecting everyone to equally agree with one another. Better off to just buy a lottery scratch ticket if you want to win anything, I think the odds are actually better.

Anyways, this entire HOA process is simply not reasonable, or even a particularly effective approach to getting anything done in my opinion. This is why we are now forced to seek relief from congress on the matter. If HOAs were reasonable about antennas in the first place, we wouldn't be doing this today. The historical reality is they are not, and therefore we are left with no other choice in the matter, but to pursue this bill in the Senate because of it.

 

And many hams who live in HOAs who want to put up reasonable antennas, also want to live in a nice community too. They have no desire to destroy anything for anyone including themselves. In fact, many hams don't even like the sight of their own antennas, but they would still like the option to hide one inside a flagpole and operate a station in an HOA.

 

I guess therein lies my issue. What gives anyone the right to demand it change, if all otherwise legal?

Whether the buyer knew it or not, by law and a willing signature, they agreed to the conditions.


Let's say, as absurd as it may be, just for fun, I want to demand my religious right to put a 17-foot statue of this in my front yard. Must be front, facing North, and must be 17-feet, for... uh... well, for religious reasons!



(geeze I gotta relearn how to add an inline image that can be resized. sorry about giving you the full 17-feet!)

So, say I come up with a good reason and convince .gov to allow this. For 700,000 people. Who are really into Pazuzu. And we all know he saves lives. (for dinner, but go with me)



Yup, what you're thinking about now is probably what your neighbors would or do think about your antenna.

 

Right, Our HOA team here is some what on the control side to where they will come out twice a week to see what is going on in the neighborhood to see if any problems exist or to hand out tickets for wrong doings. My family has lived here for the past 3 years and see people come and go in the neighborhood most of them got tired of having other neighbors ruin the neighborhood.

 

Oh, and for those that say "I don't have a choice. HOA is all there is." or an equivalent; Less than 25% of homes are in such a covenant.

I'm no math wizard, but that tells me you have a >75% chance of getting your cake and eat it too.

Oh, but wait, you want to live next to that specific school and walking distance to grand-ma and 10 minutes to work? Oh, well, then you've asked for more than just a slice of cake huh?

Google will support that number, but here's a great page with lots of insight:
http://communityassociations.net/research-papers

I took their quote of 63 million in an HOA of some sort, which is the highest percentage I could find.

 

The issue here really isn't so much about following what has been signed in the past, as it's about changing things for the better in the future.

The problem with these antenna bans in HOAs is it has the potential to seriously impact and affect the growth and development of amateur radio for others in the future.

You see, I feel we all have an obligation and a responsibility to ensure the preservation of amateur radio and it should exist for future generations. Clearly these antenna bans are a growing concern and the impact they are having on us, are clearly not conducive in terms of meeting that objective.

Of course, if you want to put that ugly thing on your front lawn Frank, I am probably not going to like it very much. However, this is not the objective with this bill. We don't want ugly antennas, or 70 foot towers with Tribanders on top. We just want the ability to install some kind of antenna, and installing no antenna at all is not an acceptable option if that makes sense.

 

NP! It's Pazuzu you'll deal with in your dreams tonight. [insert evil laugh here]

I am all for the ruling if it applies to future contracts. Something that has to be included in all new HOAs, contracts, developments, ordinances, etc. It'll never happen though.

But to undo a done deal, a big deal at that, just seems wrong to me. (Unless all parties agree of course.)

Someone will though. "Reasonable accommodation" leaves it up to the judge or other mediator. Some will say 70' is quite reasonable. You know, for just in case the 15 other ways I can communicate fails.

Before you put up an "emergency" antenna, do you have the backup batteries to run a station? If not and the power's out, you're in the same boat as the neighbors you pissed off.

 

Reading all this with interest . . . maybe you'd like an outside perspective?

It's funny how you seem to legislate about EVERYTHING in the USA! So you actually have a Law that gives everyone the right to put up a TV antenna or Satellite dish? Gosh . . .

There are very few Housing Associations over here (just a few that run Sheltered Accommodation for the elderly) . . so we don't have that blanket ban.

However, what local councils consider reasonable in terms of antennas varies wildly. And there are also "covenants" attached to the deeds of most properties built in the last 20 years, restricting what kind of things you can and can't do to your property (especially on posh new estates, like the one I now live on).

At my current and my previous QTH I put up a 25 ft pole on top of the roof which holds my HF wire antennas. I had a couple of complaints from neighbours, who wrote to the local Council. They sent me a letter, saying they understood I had erected a Radio Mast, and therefore enclosed the forms to apply for Planning Permission, and that I should fill them in and pay the £100 application fee. (I doubt if they would have granted it though)

I replied and pointed out that this mast was no more intrusive than many local masts with UHF TV antennas on top in the local area, and sent them about 20 photos of such houses to demonstrate the point. Surely if I needed planning permission, so did the hundreds of other local residents?

In both cases (different Councils) they replied and said "fair point - you don't require any planning permission for your mast" !

Having said that, there are plenty of stations over here who live in ordinary streets yet have 70 ft towers with HF yagis on . . . and they have successfully obtained planning permission for them! (although I am quite surprised). I guess it very much depends on the actual Planning Officer at each Council.

My final observation about a lot of the comments posted in this thread is that clearly there a lot of you you guys in the US who have plenty of money, and can afford to buy a huge plot of land and put up what antennas they like. Sure, that would be my ideal choice to do the same. But like the vast majority of people, I can't afford to do that! So it isn't really about CHOICE.

And I gather that if you want to live in a nice house in a nice area that is reasonably priced, these are mainly owned by these HOAs you talk about? In which case, I can see why a lot of people don't really have a choice.

And if many HOAs have imposed blanket bans on Amateur Antennas (yet allow TV antennas), I agree that is unfair, and legislation to overide that seems worthwhile.

I do, however, think the providing Emergency Communication argument is a weak one! (in reality, a tiny percentage of amateurs would ever be involved in that). Surely it's more about basic rights to enjoy your hobby, if it's not hurting anyone else?

 

Here is an idea for you older hams down in FL.

I've been looking at town homes here in PA and I noticed most have nice club houses for community activities. Has anyone ever gotten together with other HAM's in the development to see if they could setup a modest station in the club house for the community HAM's to use? I'm thinking something like a FT-950 with a vertical multi-mode antenna and a small vhf/UHF mobile? You could even get a bit fancy and connect it to a PC and run it remote from your condo via a laptop and the Internet, maybe add a 500 w solid state amp for a little more punch.

I know it's not the same as a 5 element monbander with a 1.5 KW amp and a dx5000 but it is still fun.

By the way I am going to be looking at townhomes today so I have an interest in this!

 

In all fairness, England has it's own weirdness. i.e. You actually need a license (£145.50) to own a TV and have DF vans driving around, knocking on doors to check. Gosh back atcha!

(at least the blind and B&W TVs get a discount.)

 

I now suspect anyone that uses HAM for ham works for an HOA.

 

I wonder why they chose 70 feet as their proposed limit (?). I know that some antennas 'look hideous', sure, but that's a matter of opinion.

How 'bout putting up a kite or weather balloon antenna for a few hours here and there. I bet no HOAs have thought to prohibit that one.

I'm not a fan of my neighbor's broken, rusty TV yagi. Or the guy down the street with 3 dishes either. But the FCC thinks that's ok. Imma put up an ole school C-band 20 foot diameter dish on my roof in protest.

Aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder. Anyone want to 'plant a tree'? Or a cactus?

 

First of all, her understanding of the bill is obviously flawed. If this bill passes, it would NOT require HOAs to allow 70' towers. It simply means HOAs can't prevent an amateur from putting up some form of antenna. Nothing more.

 

Glad you feel that's so easy to do. You obviously haven't tried to buy a house recently.

 

Although your area is higher than the national average, colorado.gov's 2014 report seems to indicate differently.

Cities with registered HOAs, by region. 30% is generously above the worst estimates I've found. Perhaps you have something more concrete than an anecdote?