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HOA antenna Petition to the US Congress

Discussion in 'General Announcements' started by W7HU, Dec 21, 2021.

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  1. K1VSK

    K1VSK Ham Member QRZ Page

    Actually, states, counties, municipalities, zoning rules, building codes, insurance requirements, wetlands rules, setback requirement, easements plus a bunch of other stuff I won’t bother listing all tell homeowners what we/they can or cannot do.

    HOA rules provide anyone a choice -if you don’t like it, go elsewhere. Not so true about all the others but let’s not let common sense interfere with a good bogeyman rant about HOA property rights.
  2. WD0BCT

    WD0BCT Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    How many here have watched the Movie "Don't Look Up"?

    It is a satire of course....but presents the political and media priority systems accurately! Ham radio is not on the radar screen for anyone but ham radio operators and a couple of crackpots wearing tin full.
  3. N2UHC

    N2UHC Ham Member QRZ Page

    That's basically what an HOA is... you and your neighbors voting on what you all can do with your properties. Or, more precisely, you elect board members who then vote on what you can do with your property.
  4. N3FAA

    N3FAA XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    That's absolutely the way of going about it. Unfortunately, the CC&Rs can and often do change. When I lived in an HOA, the CC&Rs when I moved in were very similar to yours. You can do anything you want (including antennas) in your backyard, as long as it wasn't visible from the front street. I put up a fairly low HF vertical and VHF/UHF vertical that were completely hidden from the front of the house, and worked great. A couple years later, the CC&Rs were changed to disallow all antennas. Because mine were visible from the side and back of my house, I was in violation. It took me being elected to the Board to fix that and several other idiotic rules, which were simply changed by a vote of the Board.

    The same exact thing happened with satellite dishes. They were allowed/disallowed on probably 5 different occassions. Imagine using DirecTV or something for years, and literally overnight, your dish is banned.

    Paint? Same thing. All of the sudden, only certain paint schemes and colors would be allowed on the houses. People not in compliance were given 6 months to repaint their houses to be in compliance.

    That is the problem I have with HOAs. I have absolutely no sympathy for someone who moves into a house knowing full well that antenans are prohibited. But I do have sympathy for those who live under constantly changing rules. They still agreed to move somewhere knowing that the rules could be modified though.

    At the end of the day, I don't support the petition either. If you want freedom to practice your hobby, don't move in to an HOA. Your commute may be longer. You might not live exactly where you want to live. But if you want to enjoy ham radio, that's the option you need to exercise.
  5. WB2WIK

    WB2WIK Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Perhaps this varies by state, but here, an HOA Board cannot change CC&Rs because they want to. They are filed with the county and go with the land, whether an HOA exists or not, and will continue to go with the land even if the HOA dissolves -- unless there's a specific expiration date written into them; and "changing" them would generally require an attorney who drafts a change and has to re-record it with the county -- which can be a really expensive process that (at least around here) virtually nobody ever does.

    What the Board can change is the HOA By-Laws. Most By-Laws stipulate they follow the CC&Rs but can add lots of stuff including additional "rules" and typically spend several pages discussing delegation of responsibilities, how to elect officers, explanation of dues and how they're collected, ad nauseum.

    I've read literally hundreds of CC&Rs and HOA By-Laws by now (started back in about 1985). CC&Rs can obviously exist without an HOA, and often do. The ones I find insidious are usually very long documents that spend lots of ink explaining the penalties for not abiding by the rules; these often use a lot of ink describing in amazing detail the responsibilities of the Board and all its members.:p I've come across "nice" documents, also: Those are usually very, very brief. Some are just 3 or 4 pages in total.

    They make more sense.:)
  6. WD0BCT

    WD0BCT Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Or operate portable only. I live in a high rise senior facility now. I've operated on my patio and I know of at least one other ham operating portable from his balcony. It can be done but quite frankly I prefer operating from a nearby State Park. I've been attempting to get the ham operating from a balcony to join me...but for some reason he prefers the dismal results from the confines of his apartment. 10X the QSOs from the park compared to the high rise apartment! And the apartment QSOs are limited to the NW states for both of us on site . The park offers all states and some DX!

    Setting up in the park takes some effort. But the results beat the apartment by a long shot! I no longer operate from our patio. My office space is dedicated to my other hobby and HF rigs are in go bags. I'm happy with this scenario.

    One of our sister senior facilities has established an ARC shack but the antenna is indoors. Again this limitation is not worth the effort in my estimate. The hams living at my facility agree and decided not to bother. A roof top vertical would be great but is against facility policy. So...I stick with portable.
    N3FAA likes this.
  7. AK4BQ

    AK4BQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Wow, man, good lord, I mean it seems to me reading this stuff that those out there have a lot of disfavour of folks that live in HOAs and who are or may be potential HAMS! And WB2WIK is correct, already ruled on. If you do not like HOAs your choice is to not live in one of those communities. But quit commenting on those that chose to live there. It is their choice, not yours. So enjoy your 50, 100, or thousand-acre plots with the antenna farm on the land and let those with a quarter or half-acre figure out how they will get on the air. I have yet to see anyone in this forum offer help to someone living in the dreaded HOA community.

    And remember, good comments welcome. Hate me if you want, it is just my opinionated thought!
  8. N3RYB

    N3RYB Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Well the thing is, there are some folks who want federal law changed to do and end around on this issue with HOAs. Why should laws be made to opt you out of rules you willingly agreed to?

    Only thing that was asked to sign a vague petition to allow for "reasonable" antennas with no clear definition of what counts as reasonable. I want an antenna up for 160m? In what case is there going to be a reasonable antenna for that?
    How exactly should one be helping here?

    You can do any or all of the following:

    1. Move somewhere else
    2. Operate from a portable device at your home(HT etc)
    3. Operate mobile in your car or truck, install your antennas there.
    4. Take your radio stuff to a park and do a POTA activation.
    5. Find a local club and operate at the club station.
    6. Use one of the many remote controlled stations online.

    There are plenty of options for getting on the air that don't involve a scale model of the Duga radar.
    W9RLG likes this.
  9. K4KYV

    K4KYV Premium Subscriber Volunteer Moderator QRZ Page

    Wouldn't a pre-existing antenna or paint colour, originally in compliance, be legally "grandfathered" in place? I don't argue that they can't change the rules to prohibit new antennas or non-conforming shades of new paint, but can a property owner really be forced to dismantle or re-paint what was already there, at his own expense? Can one be legally compelled to spend thousands of dollars to bring a property into compliance to some newly enacted whimsical rule, when it had been perfectly legal from the outset?

    Even though still satisfactory from a safety standpoint, the plumbing and electric in my house would likely be close to 100% in violation of current building codes if it were built to-day, but no-one can compel me to upgrade, because it was already in place long before those local codes were enacted. In the town on Cape Cod where my wife's parents lived, I remember a couple of new houses down the street being built, but one wall or porch of the original houses that were torn down, were left standing and integrated into the new construction. I asked why they did it like that and not tear the whole thing down and start from scratch, and was told that keeping some of the original foundation and at least one significant piece of the original construction in place, made it legally a "re-model" and not new construction, and subject to far less stringent zoning and building code requirements.
    W9RLG likes this.
  10. WD0BCT

    WD0BCT Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Just to keep some perspective on the issue of HOAs I shall relate a story about a retiree who decided to get away from it all! He moved out to the boonies and started building the dream home he and his wife wished to retire in. During the building of his dream home he became aware of what a nutcase his neighbor was and quickly decided to sell the place even though construction was underway. There is a reason for HOAs. Just because you feel your personal freedoms are more important than your neighbors enjoyment of their property does not mean your neighbors agree.

    I understand antenna restrictions. I don't understand antenna bans. The previous place I lived allowed stealth antennas even though the HOA charter banned antennas. I easily gave up my ham license when I moved there. A ham acquaintance got me interested in stealth antennas so I got licensed again. I enjoyed my stealth antenna until I started operating portable. Then realized how compromised stealth antennas were and eventually gave up my home shack.

    IMO portable operating sure beats the heck out stealth antennas.! If it were not for portable operating I would retire my ham license in a heartbeat if limited to a stealth antenna. I did it once....I could do it again. But I have other hobbies more important to me than ham radio. Not everyone may share that advantage.
    N3RYB likes this.

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